I just want to say that I have greatly benefited from Coggan's work and McQuillan's. Although one has made me laugh and cry much more than the other.

So do you feel like you need to take a shower, like I did when the Weinstein story broke just a day or two after I had re-watched "Shakespeare in Love"?

I pirate those, too.

Then your chosen handle is appropriate, you worthless piece of shit. I am sure your mother is just as proud of you as David's (and Harvey's) is of him.

Are you accusing The Sufferfest of committing a crime?

I am far from an expert in business law, but they certainly seem to be skating close to the edge.

Regardless, it is clear that they are completely lacking in ethics.

No answers, David?

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David McQuillen
Founder & CEO of The Sufferfest

Dr Coggan,

Henderson’s results with Olympic athletes and hour record holders seems to indicate that he knows something about physiology.

I get your point about FTP. But I also think that the folks at Sufferfest have done a great job of moving the industry beyond the limitations of using FTP-based prescribed training methods.

As you noted earlier, 8dp, iLevels and now 4dp are available to adapt training for better results. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t iLevel based training only available in Training Peaks WKO4?

Frankly, that’s way out of my price range. Even Training Peaks was an expensive choice for a weekend warrior like myself. So what is an amateur cyclist supposed to use when we have to keep costs down?

That’s why Sufferfest is a game changer. Because it’s $10 a month and doesn’t require a degree in exercise physiology to understand.

I can take a 1 hour assessment test and then do improved “prescribed” training in an app that is also entertaining enough to keep me motivated. I’ve used the Sufferfest for 3 years. I’m still an amateur, but I’m healthier than I’ve ever been and at 52 years old, I’m also faster on my bike than when I started (5 years ago).

It’s not perfect, but it’s better than anything else that I can afford, and it’s working for me.

Could I point out that the Sufferfest indeed does acknowledge where they came up with the 4DP assessment test.

It is based off of a fitness exam developed by Apex coaching and verified by thousands of athletes.

It’s funny though that I’ve not heard any mention of Bannister’s work on this thread? Isn’t his work foundational to all modern physiological models? Couldn’t we claim that he hasn’t been given due credit?

Doctor Coggan, your work is legendary, well-respected and utilized by top athletes the world over. If you really want to move the industry toward iLevels, then make it affordable. Please!

Wow! I have read a lot of out there stuff on Slowtwitch, but this takes the cake. To use the Weinstein scandal to make your voice heard is bizarre and highly questionable behavior particular from an “academic” associated with a large university. As a father with a young daughter, the Weinstein scandal (tragedy) resonates deeply with me and to be confronted by such caviler comments on a triathlon forum is deeply unsettling, particularly by someone, whom before the aforementioned comments, I held in high regard. Regardless of the intellectual property dispute with Sufferfest, the path you have chosen to voice your opinion on this forum is disgusting.

Get over yourself. Some of your "breakthrough" ideas are just because you got there first, not because you are exceptionally clever. If it ain't trademarked or patented you need to simmer down.

Too far. Rape and sexual assault is not the same as what you feel Sufferfest have done with 4DP.

I use the sufferfest app, and think it is fantastic! I have looked at the FF video, and need to take quite a few brave pills before I attempt it! For the record I completed my knighthood this weekend, and I still get scared looking at it :D I have no doubt that 4dp will make me fitter, every time I have used sufferfest consistently, I get fitter!

Pretty much all exercise Science is iterations of what has gone before, the reason SF works for me is the humour mixed in with the pain!

As for linking this to allegations of non-consensual sex and sexual harrassment, have a word with yourself! It says alot more about your view of those crimes, than of what is going on here!

Hey, congrats on the Knighthood! That's awesome. As for FF -- you can crush it. I actually find it less mentally - although far more physically - demanding than Rubber Glove. Watch this for tips on how to approach and pace it to get the best result: https://vimeo.com/238020529

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David McQuillen
Founder & CEO of The Sufferfest

Well, that escalated quickly...

Since it was a direct attack by saying FTP is dead, I'm not surprised.

http://www.bikeradar.com/...-4dp-training-51020/

A direct attack? A direct attack at who? And I don't see the Sufferfest group making lewd and preposterous comparisons to/at anyone.

Does anyone "own" FTP? I honestly don't know. It seems like it's an industry standard measurement that I've never seen anyone cite when referring to it.

Perhaps NFL teams and scouts need to start giving credit to Paul Brown whenever they measure a player's 40-time. Instead of saying that a particular corner has a "4.3 second 40", they should say he's a "4.3 second Paul Brown short speed test guy".

Saying "FTP is dead" is just an attention grabbing headline to point out they are showing a new approach. Over the years, I've actually thought The Sufferfest seemed pretty deferential in citing Neal/Apex and other coaches in the development of their stuff.

If I'm using Training Peaks to measure TSS, should I be using the new FTP and threshold HR values that you've given me? Or the one that training peaks just did?

I suspect the answer is use the TP value since it's their system, though you guys just gave me HR threshold of 171 whereas TP gave a 165. I'm inclined for the higher #. (Plus i know that I can hold >165hr for an hour)

For me the values still matter as I use HR to measure TSS for my commutes. (Plus I need a standardized data place for that running and swimming nonsense)

Their 4dp includes a 20 minute segment. What they mean by that statement is that workout profiles based solely on FTP are dead. Is there any other cycling app available which offers a way to determine anaerobic power targets that doesn’t simply use a factor of FTP to do so?

After doing kitchen sink a couple weeks ago I def have unfinished business with you guys... You owe me a new pair of lungs as well as new stronger legs as I left my chicken legs on the trainer together with my now ruined shoes...

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

WKO4.

http://
In my book, anyone who condones either behavior is "disgusting."

Ya think? Banister's impulse-response model was first described in the early 1970s...why did it lay fallow for >30 y, until I watered it down to create the now-ubiquitous PMC? Why is the academic applied sports science world just now "discovering" acute and chronic training load, when cyclists have been using the approach for nearly 15 y? Why is normalized power unique? Etc.

Regardless, TP owns all the intellectual property rights now, so it is up to them to decide whether they want to try to go after Sufferfest. My guess is that they won't, in part because there are numerous end-runs around such issues (such as calling it "4dp" instead of "power profiling", even though that is exactly what it is).