1. This is how you acknowledge prior work, such as Banister's (note that the date on the article is incorrect):
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...performance-manager/

2) I have never had any control over any financial decisions related to products that use my ideas - sorry.

Nice dodge.

Isn’t their protocol similar to the fatigue profile tests you have in your book? Sounds pretty unoriginal to me.

Indeed. I used to like Sufferfest as far as "entertaining funny bike videos" - it made for a change of the usual Netflix and I didn't mind paying the occasional 10$ for a video, but the day they switched to a subscription mode for their videos is the day I stopped caring about them.

Harvey Weinstein? If I have to pay to go see My Little Pony Movie with my daughters, how screwed am I???

^This. And the new ones don’t have sound tracks. My guess is that there is pressure to make money now, and thus there is a move away from video production and towards this 4dp stuff. And since the videos are set up with specific levels relative to “threshold” how does this new method translate into the onscreen values on the existing video library?

The durations are identical, as is using the results to describe a rider's "type."

The only way they differ in this context is in the exact test protocol, i.e., single-session "Full Frontal" on a trainer vs. Hunter's two-day outdoor protocol as described in our book.*

*My experience/exposure has always been with/to serious racing cyclists, who compete frequently enough that spontaneous efforts are sufficient to determine their power profile. I have therefore never developed/used/advocated a specific protocol. If I did, though, it wouldn't be trainer-based, since so many can't produce as much power on a trainer as outdoors.

Too bad the first thing a lot of us are hearing about WKO4 is in the midst of you —in response to my joke about pirating Weinstein movies—calling me a worthless piece of shit, and going back to edit your post to add a line about my mom. You could have apologized, that would have been cool.

Farewell, Trainingpeaks.

Piracy is theft. If you feel offended that I called you out on your stated behavior, you shouldn't have joked about it in the first place (just as Trump deserves all blow-back he receives about his famous interview, even if you believe his claim that it was only a joke).

As for WKO4 and TP, 1) if you're only now learning about the former, you must be quite new to power-based training, and 2) any actions you take regarding the latter have nothing to do with me. As I have pointed out before, I don't work for them (and never have). I also no longer receive licencing fees for their use of my ideas.

IOW, I, and I alone, am responsible for my comments here, and I stand by every word.

I can tell anyone out there from experience, because I've used the app and have applied the FDP theory, it is amazing stuff. The Sufferfest has made me who I am as a cyclist. My only regret is that Sir David is sharing this with the cycling world. So my competition is going to get as badass (well, almost) as I am.

This is brilliant!

Specific suffering. You nailed it with that statement.

Aren’t WKO4 and Sufferfest designed for different purposes? I’ve used Training Peaks and Golden Cheetah. I’m currently using Sport Tracks for my analytics. Sufferfest does not offer any analytics.

From what I can tell WKO4 also has nothing that allows me to generate a gpx file while on a trainer. No trainer pairing, virtual video & audio, etc.

So they serve entirely different purposes.

So Friel's model was based on assessing somebody's power profile, or rider "type", by testing across 8 different durations? And your system is based on 4 different durations?

Mr. Coggan your remarks about The Sufferfest are disrespectful, tacky and disgusting. I am astonished at the time and effort you are putting in to try and undermine these brilliant minds at The Sufferfest. I am new at this. 18 months since I have purchased a road bike and started using The Sufferfest. I know nothing about you. But I can tell you this. After your comments, I couldn't care less if you were able to make me the fastest cyclist on the face of the earth. I have zero respect for someone of your nature. Did you really call someone a worthless piece of shit? Really?

Here is what The Sufferfest has done for me. I am 51 years old. After using The Sufferfest for 10 months, I knew I was good enough to race. And win. I am racing against 20 year olds and beating them. I have been an athlete for 30 years. A damn good one. But The Sufferfest literally unlocked the beast in me. I can give 110% on any given day with any type of workout. And do well. The theory behind The Sufferfest has taken me beyond my limits. There's so much here you are missing. I have used and tested the 4DP THEIR way. With THEIR workouts. All I can say is wow. The gains are unreal!

You are entitled to an opinion. I just ask that you please speak your opinion in a respectful manner. Because these are my friends you are bashing. And we are a strong community. Nothing you can say will ever change my opinion of The Sufferfest. In fact, I think The Sufferfest is so good that if they increased their monthly fee 5x what I am paying now, I would still pay. Because it's worth it. Every cent.

You called someone a worthless piece of sh*t! At best I think you need to gain some perspective!

Also I am fairly new here, so I might be missing some of the subtleties of the forum, but you do come across as a bit of a cockwomble!

This is going to be another fitness cult CrossFit..Paleo..now this latest fad! If you’re a steady state rider like most are here on this forum then why buy into this?

Grunter, is that you?

:-)

What you say is true, Sufferfest and WKO4 serves different purposes, but the question you asked was:

"Is there any other cycling app available which offers a way to determine anaerobic power targets that doesn’t simply use a factor of FTP to do so?"

WKO4 does that and arguably in a more nuanced approach than Sufferfest's 4DP method, although as you correctly point out, you need to use something else to then utilise that data in a workout.

My decision to cut ties with TP came about solely because of you, regardless of your hand-waving here. I was pretty happy with them up until last night, but I'm not willing to put any money into a tool that has your name on it in any way.

As I indicated, no skin off my nose... you are just impacting yourself.

It appears that it already is.

Uh huh. I feel better already, it's like a long shower after watching "Shakespeare in Love" the second time.

No, I developed an anchor (i.e., FTP) based approach to simplify things.

My levels are also descriptive, whereas Joe's eight 'CP sub x' values were prescriptive.

Joe also never suggested 'profiling' an individual based on their power duration relationship.

Hello gantaliano and All,

https://groups.google.com/.../wattage/kKg-h5ajQQs

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I think Xert uses something similar. It came pretty close to what I use as an FTP based on the ride data I uploaded. They also classify you based on what duration you are strongest at based on your data and have workouts targeted for what you want your strength to be. I don't think they have training plans though.

I know my all out short efforts when fresh are much higher than what my FTP would predict but at the end of a race they are much lower (I have been doing crits this year).

I am very interested in the new sufferfest plan but unfortunately it won't work with my computrainer. I wish there was some sort of workaround, maybe by using the PerfPro software as a go between?