There are lots of training plans and methods out there. These guys are two of the best.

https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/...ons-marathon-method/

Thanks for that.

There aren’t any secrets, you gotta work.

I'm quite prepared to work! I just want to be heading down the right road taking in the experience of others to help get the training right and avoid pitfalls etc. I'll be aiming for 3 hours, I'm under no illusions that it's gonna be a tough ask!

Search for BarryP.

Then you might as well join the 100/100 if you've not already ;-)

Lots of ways to get there, but the keys are consistency in training, and running on tired...VERY tired legs. Getting familiar in training with running fast on tired legs is important to close the deal after 20 or 22 miles. The first 20 or so are fairly easy.

I like workouts like double 90 minute days where you run the last 45 minutes of the second run at race pace. Or 90 minutes one day, 120-150 minutes the next day, closing with 45 minutes to an hour of race pace. Mid-week 75 minute-90 minute tempos at 1/2 marathon pace. Long intervals 1200-2 mile

Since you’ve never run a marathon, you probably want a run or two covering the distance in training, just to have the confidence that you have already been there. But it’s not really crucial. If you can do the long workouts, you’re going to be fine.

Train to run strong after 2.5 hours vs the typical newbie marathoner approach to just build training distance. If you know how to run strong after 2.5 hours on tired legs, you’re going to be fine for the distance. Marathon is mental as much as anything.

Somebody said search for Barry P....definitely do that. It’s good stuff.

75-90 minute runs at half marathon pace...who can do that...a 5 hour marathoner?

Your training here is um, unorthodox.

Totally agree, being able to run fast on tired legs is crucial.

I tend to build my weeks around two key runs; a long run and a tempo run.

For the long runs I do two versions, alternating each week, and getting longer ever two weeks. I'll do the distance (for example 20 miles) all at an easy pace. This is usually around 1-1.5 minutes slower than my goal pace. The second week I do the same distance but run the first 10 easy and the second 10 at goal marathon pace. Then I'll bump this up to 22 miles for two weeks and so on.

For the tempo runs I do 3x3 miles for few weeks, then step up to 3x4 miles for the bulk of the marathon build and then do one key session of 3x5 miles. All aiming for about 10% faster than goal marathon pace. That 3x5 session is a great session to think about while you're hurting during the marathon. During the last 5-6 miles of the race just remembering that you've run 5 miles on really tired legs, faster than you need to on the day is a great mental boost.

hope it goes well for you

You’re claiming you do 3x5 miles 10% faster than marathon pace? Are you sure you want to claim that?

Some good advice there for more experienced runners, but for the OP, some of those workouts represent more than his current weekly mileage.

At the moment, consistency and building running mileage/endurance should be the aim. Injury is the enemy of consistency, so be cautious with escalating your mileage.

Race frequently if your circumstances and body allows; 5km, 10km, HM, pretty much anything up to 20 miles if you can find it.

Hang out and train with marathoners.

Enjoy the process and the training, no need to overthink things too much.

With a 39 minute 10km, there's definitely the ability to run sub-3, though it may be while off yet. Don't be discouraged if you aren't ready for it in 3 months, (nothing wrong with a well-paced 3:05 on debut), or if it doesn't happen in 2019.

A basic plan that got me to multiple BQs basically looks like this.

Monday 6 miles easy
Tuesday intervals, start at 6 800s and build 10-12 over time, at 10k pace with 2 min jogging breaks in between.
Wednesday off or cross train.
Thursday tempo, start at 6 miles at your goal pace minus 10 seconds, build to 8-10 towards the end of the training
Friday 4-6 easy
Saturday 8 easy
Sunday long run, start at 10-12 and build to 20. I do them all easy, usually about 1 min slower than the goal pace. But some people do them all out, depending on your ability to recover.

Repeat for 14-16 weeks, take a break every 5-6 weeks, and half the volume during the break. Taper 2-3 weeks prior to the race - but that's something that you want to figure out for yourself.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

 runners world website has free training plans.... You pick how many days a week you have to train. I like that they put in more interval sessions to keep it interesting for 12 weeks.

Usually there's one long run a week and some kind of speed day or hill day as the 2 key workouts. My main tip would be to run the long runs pretty easy. The temptation is to run them near race pace but you don't get the best training benefit like that. I was training to run under 3 hours and when I trained with much faster runners on the long days I'd constantly be asking "are you sure this is fast enough?" because I was used to training harder. You definately don't have to do the long sessions fast and you'll feel better and improve more

Thanks very much guys, exactly what I was looking for. Lots of very helpful information I can try and put into my training.

The only apprehension I have with the training is my ability to train consistently with the milage I'm going to have to do to get to my target time. I'm just hoping my body will allow as I'm feeling pretty motivated to train.

As it stands I've never really asked a huge amount of my body from a running angle as I've never put myself in a position of doing an interval session one day and then having to go out again the next etc, I've just canned the session, this will have to stop I guess!

It's the unknown of the last few miles that's freaking me out, and rightly so from reading your comments by the looks of things. Mentally, I'd like to think I'm pretty strong, I always seem to get more out of myself during races that others expect. I put this down to being a pure mental thing.

I'll definitely look to training with some of the ideas above to get started with 'proper' training. I guess I can adjust things as I go to suit how I'm feeling personally. I'm perticularly interested in the double training days, this would suit me as I can easily add a session before work of an hour or so and then run again in the evening.

Many thanks guys.

Staying healthy is key.

My strategy has been to build a base. All long slow miles. Keep ramping mileage <10% per week to be safe. Barry P style schedule 3 x short, 2 x med and 1 x long. Once you run out of time to train then consider replacing a medium run with some tempo work.

Consistent running is what builds legs for the marathon. Some days you will feel tired and want to bag the run, but take it slow and you will feel yourself opening up after a couple miles.

Good luck!

Plenty of good tips provided already - for my $.02 USD I'll add getting hill work into your plan (regardless of what your race course profile is). Great way to build leg strength/endurance if you have a hill nearby that you can do repeats on.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

yes

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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I would agree with this at your current mileage per week. If you have the time to build mileage than I'd do that first before really adding in any speed type work or anything like that. Adding mileage can be a combination of upping mileage everyday and upping your long run as well. Once you get into the 40-50 mile per week range then I'd start adding in some more tempo runs and faster paced running.

I know I run a lot by feel. Most days I force myself to run a nice easy pace (not worrying about actually hitting a specified time) to build my mileage up without risking injury. This usually means that within 2-3 days I feel really fresh and do a little faster run for my own fun/sanity. Next day or two after will be a nice easy run and then a long run. I'll repeat this until I peak my mileage and then I'll start a more structured workouts. Structured meaning 3x2 miles, longer tempo (6-8 miles), and long runs with speed built in (20 miles with last 5 miles at race pace, maybe 20 miles with 5 easy, 5 MP, 5 easy, 5 MP).

I must be living in an alternate reality. Because in my world that's not average.

In September I ran a 10k in NYC with over 1,200 participants. My time was 46:38 and I was the 88th male out of 547.

You would have beaten me by 7 minutes and that's average?!

Thanks guys.

I agree that the approach of getting up to the milage per week has to be more of a priority for me than speed work for the next month or two. I went out for my first run after the 10k four days after the event and my legs felt real heavy. They did free up a bit but overall I was still really feeling the effort with tight quad and hamstrings. I just hope with the extra distance I'll be able to add speed AND recover reasonably well.

I hear what your saying rossi46 but I'm the kind of guy that looks ahead and never back. In my mind I think I can be a better runner than I am and that's that. I think I was about 40th out of 800 but that's 39 people that I was racing that got the better of me!

Whatever training program you might consider, I would put your training priorities in this order:

1. Weekly volume.
2. Goal-pace sessions
3. Long runs
4. Other speed workouts or races

Regarding #1: Sheer weekly running volume over time will do far more for you than anything. Miles make champions. But that requires that you frequently and allow yourself to run easily. Do 2 or 3 or even 4 weeks in which you push the weekly mileage followed by a "down" week in which you cut back dramatically (and maybe do a test race on the weekend). You say you are doing 20-25 mpw now? Well, I would try to gradually work yourself up to at least 45 miles per week before taper. More if you can handle it without getting hurt or sick of running.

Regarding #2: Practicing your goal pace with some regularity is key. At least once every couple of weeks. You need to teach your body what that's going to feel like.

Regarding #3: Long runs are overrated. Too many people use them as a substitute for getting in the miles the rest of the week. As if they can "make up" the miles they missed. You can't. And even when you are getting in plenty of weekly mileage, don't fall in love with the idea that you "must" do a long run every week. Certainly don't prioritize a long run over #1 or #2.

Regarding #4: I would not let yourself have more than 2 hard days per week. By "hard day" I mean a track workout, a tempo run on the roads, a hill workout or a race. A long run is "not" a hard day unless you are doing one of those things during it. If your regular long runs feel like hard days, then you are either running them too hard, or you are not doing enough easy miles during the rest of the week to handle them.