Was Sam 100% with an official, yes or no?

If not, your "he didn't get called for it" is useless. (I have been told 1st hand knowledge of someone there that SL was not with an lead official for the entirety of his breakaway, thus your whole point about the official not calling the foul....invalid)

Edit: Which goes back to the point. You are only breaking a rule if you are penalized for it, but you can use evidence to showcase an athlete is riding in the wrong. We've seen that plenty in our sport with drafting, etc. Or by your logic, you are only drafting if you get called for it. I would be very cautious with that line of reasoning in a sport that you are very rarely in front of officials all the time. In fact you are more on your own and expected to behave essentially with "honor".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Edited by deleting a sentence out the rule but leaving the penalty after staying right: Side-by-side riding is not permitted and may result in a drafting or blocking violation;

(h) Athletes must ride single file on the far-right side (or left side depending on local law) of the bike course road except when passing another athlete (or for reasons of safety). Side-by-side riding is not permitted and may result in a drafting or blocking violation; (5:00 Minute Time Penalty or 30 or 60 Second Time Penalty (as applicable))

That's not the point. How would you know if someone was passing? With an aero helmet and you would assume not looking backwards every time.

Just because I didn't get caught drinking and driving doesn't make it legal

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

But unless he was drafting or blocking the rule doesn't state he should be penalised for sitting left? Should a rider tried to pass and he impeded, he may have been considered for blocking I'm sure.

There's video evidence of SL riding so far left (within 6 inches of the yellow line) and well within the draft zone of a broadcast moto. So when we talk about all the moving parts of a race, each part of the race (racers, motos, officials) need to follow their prescribed rules within the day to keep everything as fair as possible. Riders stay right so to allow for passing and to mitigate as much "artificial" drafting from non-racers (motos- officials / broadcast / media).

But again there seems to be lots who "interpret" the rules much differently than you. Cool.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Shambolic
Jan 19, 23 14:47
Post #49 of 80 (349 views)
If it is the fastest place to ride and the ref's deem it legal then it is the smartest place to ride. Seems pretty simple to me?

As I said your logic fails in a sport that is officiated in our manner. But to each our own.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Future will tell. Imo Sam's Kona performance is not a one-off or a result of luck. This race is so hard that only a very well designed approach and perfect execution leads to such a result. Sam is also surrounding himself with people he trusts and an approach that works for him rather than jumping from hype to hype. The bike brand does not matter so much in terms of aerodynamics, position on the bike is much more important. Will be interesting how he performs as he is no 'underdog' anymore and he might feel more pressure from big brands that support him financially. Hope this is just the beginning of what we have seen from Sam because the triathlon world needs people like Sam to make races interesting to watch.

Laidlow's Kona race was an outlier compared to all his previous races. Not only, showing courage, did he ace the bike, big time (never done that before), but then he didn't blow up on the run, as he does more often than not, even in 2022. So his Kona was a one-off until he's achieved a few relatively good repeats - as you say "future will tell".
https://stats.protriathletes.org/athlete/sam-laidlow
Now that IM have decided to remove the need to validate for those AQ (for Nice or Kona) I wouldn't be surprised to see Laidlow and Sodaro not do an IM this year, till Nice/Kona. They'll be (perfectly reasonably) all-in for the PTO Tour races: an IM will demand too much recovery time.
On your second point (above) do you think a top swim-biker makes races more interesting to watch than a poor swimmer (eg Sanders or Long or Skipper or Jewett or Astle) who then works their way up through the field, to challenge (aka make it interesting) on the run? Of course because of the visual fetish of the cameras (as directed by the video production team) focusing on the front of the race, we don't see these athletes till the second half of the run, more's the pity.

I agree that a good smattering of athlete abilities makes for an interesting race. Good swim bikers getting caught by runners at the end of the race can be exciting. Although not much love has ever been shown for Langer when he has snatched the win in the second half of the run.

For the bike companies that sponsor athletes a good swim biker in a world championship pays dividends over a runner because of the guaranteed air time on thier bike, while a runner is trying to catch up and never seen biking on the broadcast. I think Lucy Charles-Barclay was a great catch by Cube as somebody who gets lots of air time and usually ends up on the podium. So annoying that Cube sponsor a British athlete yet they are so difficult to come by over here.

Sam Laidlow is a great bet for long term bike sponsorship even if he does still blow up on the run every now and then.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I literally started with “in my option”
How closed minded can you be? Please learn how to have a debate and not just make ever thing into an argument.

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Full-time Engineer / Part-time Pro Triathlete
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/benwgoodfellow/
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.. not sure why they gave him such a big frame .. there is no belly to bounce .. oSo >>

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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>

Ironman Athlete Guide for 70.3 says it's should be 30s penalty for not staying to the right. So...it's in there. Does it get called? Maybe not - but it's in the rules. Littering and Drafting are 5 minutes, the rest are 30s.

I don't know. The IM athlete guide is vague but that is what they state the rule is.

So 30s plus decel and accel...it's a decent penalty - if it's a minute - that's a difference maker.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

To no one in particular but it is likely wishful thinking of those who insist his Kona ride was a one-off. The numbers he produced speak for themselves as well as his previous performances.

The kid is definitely the best swim-biker in the sport and his running is coming along. He will kick some serious ass in 2023 and smash the hopes of guys like Long, Skipper, Wurf and Sanders after about 300 m in the water.

Here's the rule - it is a bit "vague". The penalties seem to refer 'side-by-side riding' which will result in either 'drafting' (5 mins) or 'blocking' (30/60 secs). I read those penalties as being applicable to an athlete who does not ride both in single file AND on the right, unless exceptions apply. More wordsmithing for IM to cope with in their 2023 set of rules.
5.04 (h) Athletes must ride single file on the far-right side (or left side depending on local
law) of the bike course road except when passing another athlete (or for reasons of
safety). Side-by-side riding is not permitted and may result in a drafting or blocking
violation; (5:00 Minute Time Penalty or 30 or 60 Second Time Penalty (as applicable))
[exceptions listed at (i) on p20 of 30]
https://ironman.kleecks-cdn.com/cdn2/attachments/document/5326-2664364/2022_IRONMAN_Competition_Rules_-_English_Version_-_30march2022_-_FINAL_.pdf#_ga=2.218352282.2045724340.1648425032-260277762.1569464052

The thing about "riding right" is also to keep the roads somewhat structured. We hear all the time that the moto's need to not intrude or intefere, but their designated location on the roads is on the "outside" of the lane- to pass athletes safely and to have the least amount of drafting issues. If the lead rider gets to ride anywhere he wants, that increases the "artificial" advantage, etc. Thus if the motos stay left, the riders stay right (except for passing / safety issues), everyone stays out of each other's way (to the best that it can considering all the moving parts). Besides, how is the leader of the race suppose to know if/when they ever get passed and/or are then in blocking potential? Why would you waste that energy to check your rear, when you can just ride in a position that allows people to pass you without you having to worry.

Like I get it, SL could have been deemed to be riding perfectly fine by the officials.....cool. Even during his breakaway I'd bet he was without an official's moto more than he was with one. Remember if you have limited officials, there's no point in "wasting" one official on a rider who has 5 min advantage. Yes the front of the race has race official vehicles, but they are not "officials" that give out penalties at all times, they are more course marshals to keep the road clear. So I would just question the notion that "he didn't get penalized for it, so it must have been clean" in a sport that is so poorly officiated as ours and while also having video coverage of said events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I thought Kona was an Ironman? The guide address is attached I quoted from.

A debate is a civil argument. You stated your point of view and I stated mine. We have differing opinions so be it. This chat forum would be a boring place otherwise. How precious can you be? Please learn not to be offended so easily.

The quote you posted said athlete must stay to the right. Must. Not is preferred to. It's vague but not staying right should result in the penalty based upon the word must in the rules.

Worst case - the spirit of the rule is to ride to the right, except to pass. But there's people who adhere to the rules and those who exploit everything they can during a race. Not saying SL is one of those people but pretty clear you don't give 15m to make sure you aren't drafting...

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Haha I call it flouting the rules. I'm a weak swimmer strong biker so I ride through the field but where circumstances make sense when you catch someone and have to wait before a pass be it a road obstacle, a roundabout, corner whatever I could essentially be breaking rules. If the road has a smoother line than the shoulder I'll ride to the right here in Australia. Or a weaker rider you just passed decides to pass you AGAIN only to slow down AGAIN I may not drop back the full 15m before passing him AGAIN to watch him disappear in the rear view mirror but I'm a not a drafter/cheat and adhere to the rules except in exceptional circumstances. Sam Laidlow is exploiting the rules to the maximum and no one deemed him to have crossed them. Chapeau to him!

Lange is the exception to the rule. Or at least used to be. It's a bad sign when all your fellow professional countrymen say your methods aren't quite kosher.

On multiple occasions he stayed behind a teammate all day, letting him sacrifice himself until the run.

Lange has had some strong bike performances in recent years, but in the past he was able to run up because of someone else's pre-planned bike effort.

Perfectly legal but don't expect people to be fans of that method.

The difference between amateur and professional sport. Just like Sam Laidlow draftinng the moto when he was in the lead of the race. Some call it cheating - but as a professional athlete what is he going to do? Drop back? Reading this thread it really seems to have peeved some slowtwitchers off. But professionals need to do what they need to do to win. Using a team mate to improve your bike split, drafing a moto that will not keep the legal distance. Its all within the rules.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I agree if it's in the rules so exploit it and kudos if you get away with it but I frown more on this as it can mean teams (Erdinger) or athletes with a budget could now pay off who are supposed to be competitors in the swim and bike for an advantage. Now money is changing hands to manipulate the outcome of a race.

I have not heard of it happening - but I guess you would be stupid to think it has not happened. I do agree that paying somebody off for an advantage is not in the spirit of the sport and should be frowned upon. Is there anything in the rules against this? I am not sure - I think there should be if there is not someting there already.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.