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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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My sail like position is partially caused by really long arms for my really short torso length. If I stand up and let my arms hang down naturally, my middle finger is just 2.5 inches above my kneecap (please no monkey jokes...).

Its getting better though on the P3SL. I've actually ridden super aero before in the Chris Boardman aero position using a look ergo stem so that the head of the stem was only 2 inches above the front wheel. Using this position, I rode 5:17 at IMC (on a fast day in 1995) without "working" but I could not digest and my back and hamstrings were cooked and ended up with a 4:06 shuffle. I am now trying to optimize between "aero enough" and still being able to run off the bike, thus the slightly better position on the P3SL. FYI, on the P3SL, I only have 2 mm of spacers on an 89 mm head tube with zero rise 100 mm stem. I could remove the spaces and also go for minus 17 degree stem, dropping the front end by another 12mm or so, but I think I'll wait till this winter to play around with the front end

On my ride home yesterday I played around with seat position a bit. I jacked my seat forward to around 84 degrees, and it actually felt quite good, but within 5K my hamstrings were very tight. I was not really riding "hard" so I never got to experiment and see if I would end up on the "rivet" going hard or end up somewhere in the centre.

What I do find is if I go super duper steep, the hamstring get used more and while the run off the bike in Olympic tri might be awesome (ie zero adjustment time) since you are essentially "running on the bike", over a longer race like a half Ironman or Ironman, you'd basically cook all your running muscles. It seems that "moderate steep" in general with "riding the rivet" for hard sections might be a better utilizations of your overall muscle structure over time, vs just riding at say 82-84 degrees all the time.

Dev
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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm, not on the rivet when on the road bike? I am always on the rivet if I am going fast (and I do tris on a road bike). I guess it doesn't completely bother me but I'm a bit worried that it means my top tube is too long?

----
Don't hold back
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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I was just bustin' yer chops. As is almost always the case, there are lotsa folks going pretty fast on a bike in a non ST-approved position.

<< If I stand up and let my arms hang down naturally, my middle finger is just 2.5 inches above my kneecap (please no monkey jokes...). >>

You missed your calling - w/ an Ape Index* (yes, it really is called that) like that, you'dve probably been an excellent rock climber or boulderer.

*AI ='s the delta between your max 'wingspan', and your height. Normal is 0. Positive #'s mean greater reach, negative #'s mean you are a Tyranosaurus Rex ;-)



Back on topic, I'm stongly considering getting a Tri bike for the "free speed" of the better aero position, but also hopefully better running too as you mentioned. I still haven't run off the bike like I think I should be able, so it will be interesting to see if the conventional wisdom of being somewhat steeper being more conducive to running actually works for me.

I'd likely start w/ mod-steep, and then adjust from there.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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 Dev,

I asked this Q to Slowman many many moons ago. He basically said that I need to figure out my biomechanical sweet spot and then, even though I can still slide around, make sure I try to stick my butt there. He referenced Mike Pig at he time as an example......more than a decade later I still pull forward!

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Last edited by: david: Sep 8, 05 8:21
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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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When I was doing the frisbee circuit back in the 70's, we all could quote our ape index. Without fail, the longest throwers in that sport have a big AI. Dev, you should give frisbee a look :)
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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [JDub] [ In reply to ]
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...all I can say is that the long arms helped for the short 2 years I played waterpolo (but my swim still sucks).
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Re: Riding the Rivet....regardless of seat tube angle [SimpleS] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I suspect its to do with keeping the angle of the hip open = more power.
Winner!
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