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Retro TT stuff
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The Chrissie article got me to looking more at old technology. Funny how some of this technology (like fairings behind the headtube) were prevalent over 20 yrs ago but then disappeared.

The aerobars are obvious, but look at the fork---looks a lot like an Argos

http://www.flickr.com/...9/in/pool-648649@N22


http://www.flickr.com/...1/in/pool-648649@N22


http://www.flickr.com/.../in/pool-648649@N22/



http://www.flickr.com/...9/in/pool-648649@N22

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Ah you have to love the PRE ITU BS.

Bikes were so much better to look at back in the day.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is 1998:
Quintana Roo Redstone

1 Reviews
3 Quick Ratings
4.50 of 5

Rate it! 1 - worst 2 3 4 5 - best 1 2 3 4 5 Rating Distribution new Array(0,0,1,0,3);
Description
Redstone (#7005 aluminum) Aero-shaped carbon-fiber gussets. >QR's tri geometry including 78" seat tube angle >Carbon-fiber gusset >Carbon stabilizer diminishing rear triangle flex >TIG welded of ...
Last edited by: Old Scratch: Jan 11, 10 14:12
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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If I have the time to work with carbon at home, I would do something similar with my P2K frame.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Retro TT stuff [BMAN] [ In reply to ]
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One more:[/img]
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Love that front wheel..that is awesome

----------------------------------------------------
Don't let great ambitions overshadow small successes
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
52races12months.wordpress.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


Love that front wheel..that is awesome

Scirocco's



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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Jeremy

I actually have a road version of the Cinelli Laser that you picture. Its a dual disc with a 650 in the front. Right now it is geared with a 54 big ring and a straight block 11-15. Only time I ever had it in the big gear is down hill. Scared the **** out of me ! Passing cars with nothing in front of you !!

DB
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Those Corima aerobars are hideous.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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That nice couple in the first pic very certainly ahead of their time.
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.


These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?

Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Old Scratch] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
One more:[/img]

This Max Lelli
(which I think is a Chinese TT bike re-badged---though that's the subject of another thread) looks a lot like that Redstone.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:

These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....

I can think of about two or three reasons...

:D

g


greg
www.wattagetraining.com
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim


In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Funny to me that this bike looks so crazy-cool-custom, and then generic Profile extensions that dont match the red/white/blue paint. Check out the aero cranks.



These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?


Totally agree. Maybe Bio_McGeek or Andy can shed some light....
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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lets you have a front wheel 'cutout'

frees up head tube shaping options, and that is the most important bit on the w hole bike

top tubes do still add drag, even on a velodrome, yaw isn't 0 the whole time there either

In Reply To:
These were the USA Team Olympic track bikes ('92 I think). I never could understand the design; if you were going to save drag by omitting one tube, why remove the top tube?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMAN: Jan 11, 10 16:53
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Two words: Chet Kyle. When EDS started what eventually became Project 96 we were going in the direction of the Zipp 2001. We were in conversation with Andy Ording at Zipp about having custom versions made. Also, had various prototypes made in steel by Dan Wynn. There was a guy from the San Diego area who was making extremely stiff custom carbon bean bikes (made one for Arron Hartwell) and these ideas were all on the table. When Chet got involved in the project all he wanted to do was build this bike, which was essentially a slightly updated version of a prototype for 1986 or so. You can find pics of the original moc-up in one of the old Cycling Science articles. No amount of wind tunnel data would convince him that there were better designs.
Chet also would not entertain ideas regarding changes in rider position. No steep seat tubes even though it was legal then. Also, we knew about the superman position but Chet and Ed Burke would not give it a chance. Superman position was a well kept cycling secret but one of the engineers at GM, a guy named Bill Surber found a picture of superman position being tested in an Italian language aerodynamics journal. I still have the xeroxed picture he gave me in a box somewhere. Could we try it with the US cyclists? No way.

Cheers,

Jim

Awesome! Thanks for the personal insight thats really cool.

Just saw you can purchase all of the Cycling Science articles on CD shipped from Mr. Kyle himself. I think I'm going to go order it.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Didnt a few of those get stolen from a hotel hallway never to be seen again? Lon Haldeman had some one off WAY back in the day that had some weird ass brand on it but seemed to be about identical to the GT (then the Zipp came out...blah blah blah..)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [R10C] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Lon Haldeman


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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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I prefer to remember Lon on his Kestrel 4000 thanks ;-) (Oh, with a bungee cord from his hemet to the back of his seat)

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Retro TT stuff [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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My all time favorite. Check out the depth of the blades on the fork. Apparently, this is not the exact bike Boardman rode.


http://www.flickr.com/.../4012704666/sizes/o/

The other side:

http://www.flickr.com/.../3597376510/sizes/l/


http://www.flickr.com/.../3912239447/sizes/l/

The road production version is a little different:


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Last edited by: jeremyb: Jan 11, 10 18:57
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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1984 Olympic team bike


http://www.firstflightbikes.com/olympic.htm



From People magazine
August 06, 1984 Vol. 22 No. 6
http://www.people.com/.../0,,20088394,00.html

Maybe It Looks Funny, but Chester Kyle's New Olympic Bike Could Turn Out a Winner

"It's the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel," exults U.S. Olympic bike racer Roy Knickman, 19. "No other country will have anything to compete with it." The U.S. team calls it the "funny bike," but the new machine's performance is no joke. Pared to streamlined perfection the U.S. team's super-cycle may well help it ride off with a clutch of medals in the team and individual pursuit and 100-km team time trials at the L.A. Games. If it does, it will be partly with thanks to the aerodynamic wizardry of Chester Kyle, 55, the engineer and inventor who oversaw the bike's bizarre design. Deadpans Kyle, "So far it hasn't slowed them down any."

A professor of biomechanical engineering at Cal State Long Beach, Kyle has been pushing the speed limit for bicycles since 1973, when he first demonstrated that some 80 percent of a rider's energy goes into fighting wind resistance. His present generation of bikes, costing up to $20,000 apiece, were created by his six-man design team to weigh as little as 11 pounds. The frame tubing is made from a super-light alloy, cast teardrop-shaped with blunt end forward to slip through the air. All holes, which create drag by stirring up turbulence, were plugged or smoothed over. Spoked wheels can be replaced with plastic Kevlar disks.

Racers will wear Kyle's skintight suit, and the whole rig will be topped off with a swept-back helmet that makes the rider look—and fly—"like a missile," says Kyle. "Theoretically in a four-and-a-half-minute race," he adds, "the bicycle with the helmet, shoes and suit could save 11 or 12 seconds." In races where fractions of a second usually determine victory, that's a big margin.

The bike's unusually small, 24-inch diameter wheels also help. For example, in the team pursuit (a high-speed chase around the cycling track in which opposing four-man teams race over 4,000 meters) the tighter wheels allow riders to stay closer to one another and better use the leader's slipstream. "I don't think the bikes are intrinsically faster," says racer Brent Emery, 26, "but they allow you to sit closer and recuperate faster. The faster you recuperate, the faster you ride when you lead the pace line again." Steve Hegg, 21, a dark horse in the 4,000-meter individual pursuit, is more enthusiastic. "The bike's a big improvement," he says, "and Kyle's skintight suit is great."

A cyclist himself, Kyle founded the International Human Powered Vehicle Association, which sponsors an HPV race each year at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. "At first it was a joke," he says. "Now, with the energy shortage and the Olympics, people aren't laughing anymore." Indeed the speediest HPVs—low-riding, three-wheeled, streamlined pods called Vectors—have exceeded 60 mph on sheer pedal power. But the technological edge alone won't win races. Says Steve Hegg, "It's still the team riders that count in winning medals."

Original article:
http://www.scribd.com/.../Chet-Kyle-1984-Bike

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Last edited by: jeremyb: Jan 11, 10 19:47
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Re: Retro TT stuff [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Can you however tell us who made the frames?


(Oh, I know I know I know!)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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