Exactly. The problem is the influence on society.

I mean, there are schools in the US still teaching creationism. Public schools! It's an embarrassment to this country and it is hurting our youth. That we have "educated" adults still thinking the Earth was created 6000 years ago and humans came about by Adam and Eve is a true travesty. And that it's being taught as a truth in our schools is terrible.

In 2014 America. Cringe-worthy.

That statement makes absolutely no sense. What exactly are you reading to make you post the above response?

Respecting yet disagreeing with another's opinion is a pretty simple concept. Everyone has the same goal in life, to be happy. It's not an us vs. them equation - it's really about different approaches to the same goal. It starts with respect.

Cool. But utterly false.

There are many things that are outright stupid and harmful and deserve not a modicum of respect. Westboro Baptist Church immediately springs to mind...

I don't always get my pink panties in a wad, but when I do, it's not because of this!

Other than the Christian Brothers Tri (and I can't remember how they handled it but given the name, thinking it was open to all), all of the others have had a small group off to the side if people wanted to attend/listen to morning prayer.

No, Westboro as disgusting as it is, was exercising it's rights to freedom of stupidity. I respect their freedom of being stupid, but I don't have to like it ;)

I hope there is a higher power...I really do!!!!

BUT....as of right now, God will not get you across that finish line........Busting your ass training will!!!!!!!!!!!.....Same as paying your bills, keeping your job, and everything else!

If there was a God the way we understand it......Most of my family would not have died from Cancer so horribly!!

Lets all hope there is something more and better on the other side:)\\\

And you respect their victim's right to be subjected to it?

You can pander this "respect" thing all you want. I simply do not buy it, however.

Respect is not just given to anything and everything just for the sake of respect.

This is an interesting topic. I should start out by saying that I am a Christian. I don't believe in ever being unkind to someone who doesn't believe what I believe or treating them differently for that. I believe that we are each entitled to believe in whatever we want to. I think my struggle today is that it seems like those who don't believe in God view Christians as biggots and close minded people, and I'm sure some Christians have treated them that way and perhaps given them that viewpoint. However, as a Christian that believes in the teachings of the Bible, I am convicted to live by the standard that God lays out in the Bible. It may seem close minded, but I simply want to do what it is that God wants me to do. I do want to evangelize because the Bible says that I should. I believe in Heaven and Hell and because of my belief I want others to go to Heaven too. If someone doesn't believe in that, I don't push it, but respect their beliefs. What hurts me as a Christian is that it seems like those who don't believe treat Christians in an unkind, close minded way. I read one post on here where someone referred to Christians as ignorant and unintelligent. I must say that I find that hurtful. As much as a non Christian would not want a prayer before a tri, I find it beneficial. It seems like what most people today are pulling for is acceptance in others beliefs. Those who are homosexual want to have acceptance and equal rights. But it seems unfair to me that Christians can't be afforded the same thing. People don't want to accept that I believe in God. Is that not in turn being treated in a close minded way? I guess what I'm saying is, if true acceptance is what we are pulling for, the Christian needs to accept that one doesn't believe but the non believer should in turn accept that the Christian does. So if a Christian leads a prayer, we should accept that this person believes. It doesn't mean you have to participate, but nonetheless you should mirror the acceptance. If I do a race where a prayer isn't led, I don't get offended. I just accept the RD doesn't want to do that. I understand what those are saying who are not for a public prayer, but I will say as a Christian that it's hard to read some of these comments and how it seems that some treat Christians in the very way that they don't want Christians treating them. I think we have to understand that it's a two way street.

ahh, so you're missing the whole point of respecting others, which is not what westboro was doing - in case you're case you're confused (and you clearly are). Well then carry on with your head up your ass, have a nice day.

" its a USAT sanctioned event,"

the fact that it's a USAT sanctioned event means it's what? what does that sanctioning bring to this race that a non-sanctioned race does not enjoy?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What?

Alright, sorry, I missed a few posts. But, isn't this what the OP is doing?

Yep.

That's not what I got out of the OP.

Yeah, it's rough out there for Christians. They can't marry in many places. They face all kinds of discrimination in the job market. People can get fired from jobs just for being Christian and it happens all the time - plus they have no legal recourse. Almost no Christians have ever made it to Congress, and there has never been a Christian president. At least that we know of - they might have been but have to keep it secret.

When they want to open a new church there are often protests against it, especially since 9/11.

Yeah, it's rough being a Christian in this country. Real rough. Not enough acceptance and really limited rights.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Webygail13 wrote:

how it seems that some treat Christians in the very way that they don't want Christians treating them. I think we have to understand that it's a two way street.

Do you think an RD not having a prayer is the flip side of having a prayer? No, the opposite of a RD holding a prayer would be asking everyone at the event to spend a moment thinking about how there is no god, and to affirm it together.


Has that ever happened? Get a clue. Many atheists, religious people of other faiths in the US (where they are a minority), and even some progressive Christians just want to be left alone, and for religion to happen in private. Be religious in your church, in your home, or even in public by yourself or with people like you. But leave the rest of us alone and don't ask or pressure us to take part.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

"If someone doesn't believe in that, I don't push it, but respect their beliefs. What hurts me as a Christian is that it seems like those who don't believe treat Christians in an unkind, close minded way. I read one post on here where someone referred to Christians as ignorant and unintelligent."

the comment to which you refer did not call christians ignorant and unintelligent, if it's the comment i read. the comment said it's ignorant and unintelligent for christians to think that this is a moment that everybody thinks is inclusionary. it's obviously not, and i think you can see that from this thread. this runs counter to the point you made right before, which is, you don't push it. in this case, the RD pushes it.

that said, it's his race, he's a good man, i've been there most years since the mid-80s, and the same man that says this prayer live the fact that everybody makes of his race what they make of it (including a pretty interesting mile-4 run aid station).

i've been giving some thought to going over and racing israman. were i to do so - i have no nationality or religion that would cause me to prefer this race over any other - i could imagine a jewish prayer before the race. were i to race in morocco i could imagine an islamic prayer before the race. were i to race in slovenia maybe there would be an eastern orthodox prayer before the race. i would find each charming and cultural. i therefore can't fault this RD for doing what he wants at his race.

that said, in my opinion, it borders on bad taste for a christian to comment on this thread that he's a christian and he has no problem with the prayer. he's not the party that stands to be offended.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan, bear with me here because I understand that this is a stretch. Seriously, I do. But, I think this conversation is interesting. Let's say you have a private club that discriminates on the basis of race or gender - you might run in to some problems getting a permit to serve alcohol from the government because it might seem like the government is endorsing such discrimination. Could you make a similar analogy to USAT (absent the legalities that don't apply, but just perception) sanctioning a race that seems to promote one religion over others?

Dude - you're being a dick.

Spot on.

Ok...I am ignorant and a hack in punctuation....So we now know you are superior. Ok.......but if curios your word antiatheist is in wiki and urban dictionaries. Also can find an online definition but sadly webster is as ignorant as I am. . But please. Insult me more. Ther probably would be hope for me if you could pray for me though

Who gives a rats ass? Listen if you believe, don't if you don't or you believe something different.

Personally I think most religions are just different frames around the same basic picture. If the frame fits, cool, if it doesn't, ignore it and move on.

People getting "unsettled" by another religions expression in any context are why we have holy wars.

John

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Dude, you're escalating.