I have never actually witnessed a cross-channel attempt.....

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http://rogersroadrash.blogspot.com/

Ah, OK, just thought maybe in your years of sailing, but I guess the channel attempts are not really all that common, i.e. there aren't 20 folks out there every day trying to swim it:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

How hard can a Channel crossing be? The Top Gear guys "drove" a Toyota Hilux across it. Of course the Morris sailboat and VW Caravan didn't get out of the port.

Thinking back on the 08 and 12 Games' 10K swims, most of those guys appeared to be pretty lean, e.g. Ous Mellouli might be 10% fat at the most. So, even a guy like him would need to gain maybe 30 lbs or so to do the EC??? Is it your impression that the top marathon swimmers purposely gain weight whenever they have a cold water race coming up??? Or, is there a divide between those who swim say 60 degrees and up vs under 60??? Just wondered, since most of those Oly OW swimmers looked about the same as pool swimmers.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

it's the cold, it's a completely different animal than the heat or any kind of tri. The guys who I swim with who've done it have all gone on strict diets to increase body fat all while swimming 40-60km a week. there is no 12-16 week training plan for EC, it's a 9-12 month journey.

Oh I fully get the cold part, and I can see how it would take 9 months or more to gain the weight and to do enough km to be able to swim for 15 hrs or so. Still, it is amazing to think that someone like Mellouli or Lurz would have to bulk up but, I guess the cold is the same for everyone.

Just one other question: do you think those guys floated better such that swimming was actually easier after gaining that fat??? Or was their body position already so good that the extra flotation did not really make much difference???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Can anyone give me any tips for first time swimming in the English channel? I have signed up to complete one and I'm searching for top tips. I have found this article which I found really helpful bit.ly/1lOHMdp

Any other tips are much appreciated :)

Thanks!

This is not the place for intelligent comment on Channel Swimming.

marathonswimmers.org definitely is, dripping with channel and marathon swimmers.

There's also the channel swimmers group on yahoo groups. But easiest to start at the marathonswimmers.org forum.

Oh, c'mon, there were some good takeaways from this thread:

If he kq'd this year, he needs to gain 40 pounds

If he doesn't have a support boat, he can tow his own (although that may be considered "assisted", as he's technically touching the boat. )

Don't harsh on anyone else's definition of "unassisted", cuz your own probably ain't that pure either.

but getting that fat will definitely harm my bike and run if I were to do an Enduroman!

I swam with a guy in college, Chad Hundeby, who had the channel crossing record for 20 years. He didn’t gain a lot of weight training for it.

All of the Olympic 10k swimmers started out in the pool. Some of them went on to specialize but a good number compete in both open water and the pool. But all of them train almost exclusively in the pool.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Get an experienced, qualified coach
Get in the weight room
Gradually build up your volume
Plan on a 12 - 18 month training cycle depending on your background
Don’t bring a triathlon mentality to open water swimming
You don’t need to swim as much as some of the marathon swimmers will tell you.
Enjoy and have fun. Less than 2,000 people have successfully completed it since Captain Webb.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

All Right, Zombie thread from 7 years ago, let's hit it hard!!!

I remember Hundeby, he won the 25K at the '91 OW Champs. I fully get that most 10K swimmers train mostly in the pool, and I think I could swim a 10K in 60* water w/o a wetsuit if I had to. However, to go 10 hrs or more in 60* water is a diff story, at least it is for me. In any case, I have no plans to swim more than 10K, and that will be in the pool for the USMS postal event. :)

On a side note, Erica Brown is now training at the club I swim with, mainly due to the Covid shutting down the U of TN pools. As you prob know, she set a new AR for the 100 fly (49.38) at the SECs back in Feb pre-Covid, and she's gone 45-high fr 100 free and 21.X for 50 free. She is actually quite nice, quite cute, and of course very fast. Also, you can just tell that, come hell or high water, she is going to make that team next year. I think she has the drive and focus to make it. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

While most channel swimmers do indeed carry a bit of excess body fat, it is not always the case. Look up Jim McConica. He is relatively skinny, definitely not fat, and he has done the channel swim from Catalina many times, often in low 50 degree temperatures. He frequently does training swims, completely solo swimming several miles out to an oil rig, and then back. And if you want a definition of bad ass, for a few years in his early 50’s he would swim 30,000 (minimum) meters a day, every day, for the entire month of February! Some ow, some pool- typical pool swim was Sunday’s when he would swim 300 x 100 METERS long course, on a 1:15 interval! In his 50’s. How many triathletes could do that?
Anyway, the point is you do not have to be fat to acclimate- but to an earlier post, it takes a lot longer than 4 days!
And there are all kinds of bad ass people doing bad ass things without seeking attention!

I have heard of McConica, mainly via Monty. The 30,000 m/day for 28 days straight is pretty phenomenal!!! And, regarding 30 x 100 lcm on 1:15, I'd be doing well at 10 x 100 yd on 1:15, and that only on my very best days. But then I've never even come close to setting any Masters national records vs he's set 50 or more. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

What's the use of getting in the weight room? I HATE strength / weight training and no one in the world can make me to do it! And why don't bring a triathlon mentality? I have just found another coach to help my swim technique as my previous one didn't work (couldn't make me faster), and he's a national triathlete.




That's bad ass!



I planned to do the acclimation earlier this year then signed up for the channel. My plan was that, if I could last 6 hours in 61 or less (i.e. the qualification requirement of CSPF), I would signed up for a slot. However unfortunately that the winter was warm and the sea never reached my target temperature. The coldest was about 64 this year. When I did my longest race which took me more than 5 years, the temperature was about 68 which was far too warm. The pool I use reached 61 for a few days, I time trialed my 1500 m on the coldest day and it was more than 2 minutes faster than a few months ago. However as I swam before work on those days the longest I did was only 2 hours because I had to go to work afterwards.

Despite I couldn't have an answer if I really could last 6 hours under 61, I signed up for the channel this February for a September 2021 slot, knowing that if I didn't do that at that time, I would not be able to swim the channel in 2021. I insisted to do it in September because the temperature would be around 65 at that time which I would not have a problem as long as I have the endurance. I hope that the next winter will be cold enough for me to do the qualification requirement.

The coldest water I've swum in was 41 but I was inexperienced that time and didn't know I shouldn't go to a sauna afterwards. I swam 5 days in 41-45 on a trip last year, for 10 - 30 minutes. It really made me feel cold but it might be because I didn't have any acclimation at that time. I was (and now am) at 5'9" and 150, and hope that I can bring down my weight to 137 as I want to add bike and resume run to my training regime, probably run a marathon (which I hoped to do it this year but cancelled due to COVID) and also a full triathlon.

haha I thought the same thing.

Things are really slow here

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You asked for tips. I’ve coached a lot of athletes through marathon and ultra-marathon swims. If you want to be as successful as possible with the least amount of injury, get in the weight room. And your reply kind of proved my point on the triathlete mentality and why you should leave it in triathlon. There’s a big difference between a good athlete and a good coach. If you are that worried about your technique slowing you down then you probably need to spend some more time in practice building up your strength and conditioning in the water and your technique. Those two things can’t be separated out from one another.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

He did. He was one of the first world champs when Fina started to have open water world championships.

I feel sorry for all these kids with this being an Olympic Year. One of the kids I used to work with, she’s top ten in the US for distance swimming and at Michigan now, wasn’t in the water for 2 months. She told me that was the longest she had been out of the water since she was 10. It’s probably not a bad thing but she was prepping for her first NCAA Champs and Olympic Trials.

You know how Olympic trials can go - can you deliver on that day.

Even the Olympics for 2021, as we move along, are looking doubtful.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Hi Tim, any advice on S&C programs for swimming (for triathlon, 70.3 and 140.6).
I am not too bad all things considered pace wise for an older age grouper, CSS around 1:27/100 LCM, but I do wonder what a good S&C program could do for me.
Thanks.

It could do a lot for you - prevent injuries, allow you to train less and go faster, experience less fatigue at the end of a race and a good program will make you feel more connected through your movements. Without seeing your stroke or knowing your swim training, you could probably find another 5-7 seconds/100 with a well implemented S&C program.

Volt Athletics program is decent and inexpensive. They have options for swimming or triathlon programs. If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

miklcct,I have a soft spot for you because you are an enthusiastic young guy full of dreams and you are from Hong Kong,which is where I was born and learned to swim BUT seriously,the biggest thing that is holding you back is not realising how little you understand about long triathlons and long distance open water swimming.

Read what SnappingT has written and take his advice.....oh and watch this video of Aussie Ultra legend John van Wisse and his Enduroman Arc to Arch event. He is an old school hard man if ever there was one.(Weighed about 92kg when he did this event)

https://vimeo.com/113491266

This is a general question for this thread and maybe it was discussed 7 years ago, but now that swimming wetsuits exist, why don't they just open up a wetsuit category. It won't cheapen the old school category, but would open up the "event" to a lot more smaller and lean athletes who otherwise are on the limit. If you get to 5'9" and 137, I bet you DNF just because you can't possibly generate and keep enough heat around your organs.

I did a 12km Lake crossing swim last summer and it was borderline Ironman wetsuit legal temp. One of the women from my club who beats me by 1.5 min during the 1500 free in masters swimming went with no wetuit. She should have beaten me by around 10 minutes if both of us had no wetsuit. I chose to wear one for warmth because my intensity was going to be way lower on a 12km swim than a 1500m and I would just lose heat to the lake going at tourist marathon pace. I ended up beating her by over 35 minutes. I should have just beaten her by around 10 min (if you take wetsuit into account for 10% speed). But she got hypothermic half way through. She was borderline medical but as soon as she got on land with air temp at 30C and warm food she stabilized. She was barely 5'2" 120 lbs. I am 5'6", 140 lbs. I made the right call, because I have a lot less body fat.

I think Global Swim Series has it "right" with wetsuit and no wetsuit options.

Dev

I have two dream swims - one is round Hong Kong, one is the English Channel. In the perfect situation I should do the round HK swim February / March in the same year before I do the Channel as a "test run in my comfort zone". However due to cost reason (it is too expensive - 2 times the cost of doing the Channel) I have decided to skip the HK swim unless Hong Kong is liberated.

And I still don't understand what's wrong with my "triathlete mentality" as from the very beginning I train in the a triathlon club and train both swim and run. Also the two Channel swimmers I know currently living in the city also train in the triathlon club I trained with as well.

Gibraltar has traditional and neoprene categories. There is one Hongkonger done the neoprene category but none in the traditional category yet. It is one of the channel in my secondary bucket list (my primary bucket contains the English Channel and round Hong Kong), however I am not fast enough to qualify for it (it requires 3 km/h for 4 hours for a single crossing).

I also did a lake crossing of similar distance last year and the water temperature was 20 - 22°C. I went for the skin category and it became my first marathon swim. I really enjoyed it and continued to do marathon swimming afterwards. However, now in summer I basically have stopped most of my training because I just can't tolerate the heat to do any structured programme so I have decided not training in the squad anymore, and wait until November to return when the temperature goes under 24°C. If I get to 5'9" and 137 I will train at a higher intensity than last year as well. I want to get myself to the slimiest I can get in order to get the speed up such that I can complete the crossing as fast as possible. I will get my feeling in the coming winter to decide.

Also can anyone suggest how I can lose weight, considering I can't train anything high intensity because it is too hot in the summer? My weight hasn't gone down in the preceding few months. 137 was my weight when I graduated from uni but after a year of unhealthy lifestyle afterwards it went up to 156, with significant deterioration in my aquathon performance as well, and I could never get rid of all those extra weight since then despite adding heavy swim training (averaging about 15 km / week over a whole year) afterwards.