Anybody pulled up to a stop sign today? Sit and watch and count how many people actually stop at it and how many roll through it. Watch for the occasional one that pulls up with no intention of stopping. How about texting while driving? We live in an "anything goes," society and for a per centage of the population, the difference between right and wrong is what they are currently able to get away with. Why, then, are we so surprised at course cutters?

I used to train with this guy. He bragged to me about winning a triathlon. I never bothered to look at his results. I was impressed. At my very first race, he came along. I saw him on the bike, but never saw him on the run. It was a small sprint that had 200 entrants and the run course was an out and back on a sidewalk. It's impossible to miss someone. I cross the line and he's waiting for me. I was confused as hell. He says, "Come on, I won this thing. We better get out of here!" Then he tells me he cut the run. He also tells me he cut the run at the tri he won before. I was speechless. He got DQ'd from my little race, but the very next weekend we raced again. I said how happy I was that there were big glasses of water at the turnaround. He said that he still just took a little dixie cup. Well, I stopped at that turn around. They only had big glasses. He cut that run too. I never raced with him again, and very soon stopped training with him. The real kicker for me was, he didn't need to cut. He's fast as hell. Cheating is everywhere. It's in sport and in life. Hell, I bet this old training partner of mine would cut the course in a three-legged race at his kids birthday party. They just don't see any wrong in it.

As for the previous cheating thread from yesterday? Shame on her. She cuts the swim to start the race and continues on with that fiasco for another 13 hours? It was a mirror to that thread. She lied, then continued to lie throughout the thread. What gives?

Yes it bothers me to see cheating in any endeavor, but I tend to flash toward what I think it means globally about said person. Specifically, if someone is willing to cheat in a silly sport like triathlon where we pay to participate, how likely is that person to cheat at say.....their job when it will benefit them financially?

I have used and continue to use a simple $2 Nassau bet on the golf course as a test of one's character. A friendly game of golf is a common vehicle for getting to know folks and I use it routinely for a peek into people's character. Someone who will cheat in a $2 game is the same person who will do it on their taxes, in business and in their personal life. By the time you are an adult you are who you are and the more people I meet the more I'm convinced of that fact. I have called people out on it right on the course and have also let it slide and just dismissed them as dishonest. Talk is cheap, actions speak volumes.

I got lost on a course once, but the RD sent an ambulance to find me and they put me back on course. It was an ironman distance race and I rode an additional eight miles. That hurt!

It was one loop. They called her out on that too in the thread. The company said they put out a two signal setup. One signal on first loop. One on second. Then T1. She did one loop and the second signal was entering T1, which is why her swim is blank and T1 is jacked up and was combined with her swim. He said the system is designed for that exact reason.

So obviously she was DQ'd from IMFL. But based her blatant cheating and then going the extra mile to cover it up, will she be banned from future events?

I was curious about this same thing too. At what point do you get banned and for how long?

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"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Up to WTC, but I would assume so.

Brad is spot on with this one.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Still showing in the official results, by the way.

I'm sure all of that will be sorted out at a time in the not-too-distant future...

She'll need to work on the bike segment for next year.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

If Lance can still race triathlons and road races, I'm pretty sure this girl can race other triathlons and other road races. She just won't be posting here anymore ... like that newbz guy after being called out for cutting the course short. She'll be going to beginingtriathlete.com just like newbz

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Lance cannot race anything sanctioned. It has to be unsanctioned for him to legally compete.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

semantics ... he can still race. He's not banned from every race out there. If he still wants to get his fix of doing a race, he can still do it even with the WADA thing. That was my point.

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Here is a link to a report that came out last April, that analyzes the top 10 threats to sport. The premise on cheating is that cheating at any level destroys the integrity of the sport, which causes it to lose its appeal to "the masses", which then erodes the competitor base. No interested competitors, no sponsors, no races.

http://www.playthegame.org/...sports_integrity.pdf

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

The OP started a thread wherein she was receiving a lot of support from everybody and that support extended over a period of time with a genuine interest showed in her situation and how things played out for her on race day. She told her story briefly and basked in the kudos. Then she did something a little bit odd...in retrospect. She posted comments about other's drafting at the race in a separate post, almost as if it were just an aside. Yes...that's right...SHE was the one who first accused people of cheating at the race though her comments were not directed at anyone identifiable. Still, she was the one who broached the subject...it was not our anonymous first time poster who did that. Maybe you don't see that as significant, but I do and I suspect others do as well.

So maybe your decision to throw in with Power13 and "shame the shamers" comes from a principled place and I will assume it really does. Perhaps it was rooted in the Golden Rule...treat others in the way you wish to be treated. I wonder if our serial cheater lives by that rule? I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she does. Perhaps a little reading through the threads linked below will give us some perspective on how our serial cheater feels about cheating and how cheaters should be treated in an online forum, as she's posted in all of them...and more. Fascinating reading and full of irony.

Should this be a DNF or a DQ at Kona?
Riding a bike during a 13.1
A Cheater's Modified Pullbouy at IMTX
Posers
What's the IMFL Swim Like?
Re: 38 Minute Swim Guy at IMLP
Kip Litton (marathon serial cheater) Exposed in New Yorker
Finisher's Medals

I hope you reconsider your position.

lol you've done your research, and i've enjoyed wasting time to read it...

my favorite is post 21 in the "whats the ironman florida swim like?"


and i quote "I think I'd prefer just swimming one lap ;) "

sounds premeditated

I was wondering the other day about starting a new wristband thing (like the Livestrong bracelets), but where every dollar donated to buy a bracelet funds whatever agency does the drug testing. It's supposed to be prohibitively expensive for RDs to arrange to have testing done. Maybe we can all help subsidize it ... put our money where our mouths (or fingers) are.

I think the bands should be blood red.

I would argue that point. While it may not be rent money, there are a LOT of age groupers at the pointy end of the stick that are receiving sponsorships and other benefits while not being pro. Free shoes, bikes, clothing, discounts, etc. I would bet that a top sponsored age grouper collects a few thousand a year in benefits, if not more. And that argument trickles down, there may be competitive age groupers that are losing out on some of these benefits to dopers.

Pro's are limited in number. Age groupers are legion, and for the younger, more talented age groupers (Such as Nick Baldwin who posts on here) are where our next wave of pro's come from. You want to see clean sport at the top levels? Start with the seed corn, education and testing.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Given all that has transpired, that last one gives me a queasy feeling...Dr. Post graciously sends 50(!) medals, one might think we'd have seen some photos of the happy recipients after the fact or at least heard something about how successful the clinic and medal giveaway was.

There was a lot of "white knighting" going on in the the thread that many are referring to. The fact that she was basking in praise off a lie is why the piling on occurred.

Edit: I don't see this thread lasting long.

I don't think we're really disagreeing with each other at a fundamental level. In theory, I totally agree that everyone in a race field should be subject to random drug testing. I was just getting at when it comes to doping, there are limited testing resources available because of time and money, so USADA, etc.. has to pick their battles, and it's reasonable for them to go where doping has the most economic impact.

Now you bring up another idea on how to reduce doping in the races that have the most economic impact. Do we go from the "bottom >> up", or do we go from the "top >> down"... (is this a discussion on doping, or Reaganomics??) Going from the "bottom >> up" would certainly reduce doping in the AG ranks, which of course is good. Would it have an impact on the pro ranks? Yes, almost definitely. It's really just a question of cost, because the "bottom >> up" approach would likely be more expensive than the "top >> down" approach, due to a higher number of tests. I don't know how much drug testing costs, other than "it's expensive". It also depends on where your priorities are, and that will largely be selfishly determined - ask a pro, and he/she most would likely go for the "top >> down" approach. Ask an age grouper, and he/she will probably endorse the "bottom >> up" approach. (again... this really feels like Dems vs. Reps, doesn't it? haha!)

Certainly, when it comes to other areas (drafting, course cutting, education about doping, etc..) the resources are not as limited, and therefore equal enforcement/effort across the board is feasible, and should be pursued. This is not really debatable by anyone who understands the rules of sportsmanship and fair play.

Given all that has transpired, that last one gives me a queasy feeling...Dr. Post graciously sends 50(!) medals, one might think we'd have seen some photos of the happy recipients after the fact or at least heard something about how successful the clinic and medal giveaway was.

Agreed.

I'm investigating that currently for a different reason, and I'm getting quotes of between $600-1000. Per individual.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

i think if we can abolish cheating of any sort we ought to do so, and if slowtwitch can help uncover cheaters that's all for the better. i've been trading some emails with marc roy, i'm looking forward to, along with a great partner like sportstats, coming up with some guidelines, utilities, conventions, best practices for how to ferret out cheaters without falsely accusing those who are simply the victims of circumstances. for example, chips that stop and then conveniently start are rare to nonexistent. but sometimes chips do flame out, and we need to recognize that this might have happened in some cases. sometimes mats flame out. but then they'll flame out for everyone rather than just one person, i suspect.

where i would tread more lightly is in the public shaming part. i don't know that this is your duty or my duty or the community's duty. i'd like to keep a cheater from prevailing, and i'd like to stop a serial cheater from racing in the future. but i suspect serial, premeditated cheating is evidence of a disease. i don't think public naming and shaming is the goal. i think disqualifying and banning is the goal. you can do that without making someone run the gauntlet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yikes! That's a lot! I think I read that the guy who put on Gran Fondo NY paid $17,000 from his own pocket for testing. It's a shame it would be so prohibitively expensive.

As the one who started that discussion, let me be clear - that is NOT what I said. I never said it was a waste if time to worry about it.

What I said was that the reaction was out of proportion. Sorry, I don't think that all cheating is "the same". I am NOT saying it is OK, or it doesn't matter.

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