>>The way I was reading the other posts was that they should be DQ'd because she is receiving an unfair advantage. I didn't want to see them getting ripped for "obtaining an unfair advantage" when it's pretty obvious (at least to me) based on the info presented that they were not racing or trying to obtain a higher placing.<<

Just to play devil's advocate....

1. They were entered in Ironman NZ, which, the last 3 years when I was there, is a "RACE". If they wanted a nice ride in the NZ countryside, why pay $400US to enter a race?

2. In the very recent past at IM NZ, the Kona slot for certain women's age groups has rolled down to the very LAST woman finisher in that AG (or even out of the AG), therefore, say this woman got the assistance on the bike, made the cutoff and was a decent runner and passed a woman in the AG on the run and finished 14th instead of 15th in the AG. She could claim that Kona spot that rolled all the way down. For reference: One year the slot rolled to the last place finisher in the AG (who finished in 16:15 or so). The year before, it rolled down and out of the AG and back to W30-34.

So there is precedence on how "cheating, but not really cheating" can affect the outcome.

clm

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Hey Jay, I'm pretty sure I know who PStar is. Considering the source, I'm not surprised.

clm

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"having some personal pride"

Cathy, my comment was a bit out of line. I apologize and take it back.

But I thought you were being way to hard on this gal. Chances are they have trained as a couple and have made sacrifices to do IM NZ together. She's developed some physical ailment, maybe even stomach flu that morning, who knows, and he's trying to encourage her to continue - perhaps only to get as far as the next aid station. I don't know if anyone who's posted here was there so we're all only speculating as to what the real situation was, but I'll certainly give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think my questions are valid. For someone who is so outspoken and critical of so many others and what they do or do not do, clm sure doesn't seem to have the background to be able to look down on others. Look at her post ragging on women new to bike crits. From what I hear, she should be the last to comment on things like that.

Cathy,

I kind of view something like this as no harm, no foul. He obviously wasn't gaining any advantage by waiting 40 minutes for her. She DNF'd, so she didn't cheat anyone else out of a Kona slot or a higher placing. We also don't know their reasons for wanting to do the race together, maybe this is a "personal journey" or something for them.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

"Wouldn't want to have to live......."

You're taking yourself way too serious. Do you think anyone else would give really a damn.

Obviously a lot of people commenting on this must still be single. I also understand why.

Cathy, as more information becomes available, my opinions may/will change. But, based on the small amount of info presented ... I voiced my opinion. I have umpired for quite a few years. I could see the judges letting them just DNF, raher than DQ'ing them. Either way they're out of the race. The whole "no need to kick someone while they're down". If the lady tried to continue, they would have liely DQ'd them both, wouldn't they?

As far as someone being embarrassed about this photo being circulated ... you're kidding right? Are we, as humans really suppossed to act like we're invincible and never need any assistance to have pride? Do we really have to carry around that facade all the time?

[Sarcasm On] Nicole Baddman (sp?) should be horrifically embarrassed that they showed her puking during the Kona race. She can't handle a little stress? Boo-frickin-hoo. Pull yourself together woman, you're a pro! And DeBoom ... good Lord, what was with all the whining, "Oooooh, *Mooooan* Is this what a hernia feels like?". C'mon, have some pride, you're a 2-time Kona champ, stop whining like a little beeeeyatch and passing out every 5 minutes. If you can't handle some pain, get out of the sport. Don't even get me started on how embarrassed Julie Moss should be. [Sarcasm Off]

I've said similar things with similar "Too Tuff" attitude, and reading my old posts, I think it sounds goofy so I stopped. It's okay to show a moment of weakness, it's part of being human. It's okay to show a moment of compassion, it's part of being human. It's okay to let the guard down from time to time.

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Oz Tri-Guy, if you were both entered in the race and you had not yet crossed the finish line, I don't see how that could be cheating.

Agreed.

Without knowing all the facts--here's my guesses: (1) The pair are "Century-type" bike riders (judging from their clothing) who decided that they could do an IM if they could do a century; (2) The woman is a poor swimmer who probably breaststroked or sidestroked most of the 2.4 (judging from her time); (3) The woman was totally ill-equipped, mentally, physically, or otherwise (could have been sick) to do an IM, and by this point in the bike (judging from her position--sagging, head down) is totally physically and mentally defeated; and, (4) The man knew BEFOREHAND that the woman was going to have problems that day (judging from the fact that he waited for her in T1) and PROBABLY had significant guilt feelings about allowing or encouraging her to do the race that day (because he probably pushed her into doing an IM) and, to show his support and love for her, is helping her finish the bike leg. My point--If he truly loved her, would he have allowed her on the course that day? Or, was he more in love with the "idea" that he was married (or whatever) to a Tri-Goddess IM finisher?

Nicely done Pee Stain

"My point--If he truly loved her, would he have allowed her on the course that day? Or, was he more in love with the "idea" that he was married (or whatever) to a Tri-Goddess IM finisher? "

More speculation. Who really knows. I don't know about other people but I don't "allow" my wife to do anything. She "allows" herself. If I ever tried to interfere on her decisions by telling her that she can or can't do anything it'd be a sure recipe for divorce. However, we do negotiate sometimes.

I am amazed by all the stupid ass comments made by posters I usually respect. Anyone who has done an IM knows sh$t happens and if anything, these folks need our support. I have dropped tubes, co2, and tools when necessary to help a stranded competitor as I imagine several of you have.

Look at the results and you will see their names are Mary and James King from The Republic of South Africa. If you further look at triathlon results in South Africa, they both competed in several triathlons there in the past year or two and did very respectably. So for those who question whether she was prepared or not she was likely more prepared than many others who have attempted Ironman races.

For some reason, it bugs me more that he hung out in T1 waiting for her as if they had planned that he would "help" her through the rest of the race. I can certainly see coming across my wife somewhere when she's suffering and without even thinking doing whatever I can to assist/comfort, etc. That's part of being a spouse, and for that matter, a human being. The example someone provided above of encountering his girlfriend starting lap 1 when he's finishing lap 2 is a good example of the situation I'm trying to describe.

But intentionally waiting around in T1 is not an emotional response to someone in need. It's evidence (not dispositive--maybe she normally swims at the same pace as him, was having problems, and so he was worried) planning to do something that, IMO, is contrary to the spirit of individual endurance events.

Glad you posted that. They travel all the way from S.A. to N.Z. to compete in an IM together and then get ragged on on for not being serious enough.

Jeeze, cut them some slack.

You pass an obviously drunk driver, pick up your phone to dial 911 and then say to yourself, "It doesn't affect me now so I'll let the people he might kill behind me take care of it."
Three other things:
1. Cathy's correct about the cheating, although, you can't reach any conclusion from this picture.
2. Cerveloguy and P-Star are extremely off base, vulgar and chauvanistic.
3. It is not outside assistance if you run with someone while you are still in the race.

Bob Sigerson

"If I ever tried to interfere on her decisions by telling her that she can or can't do anything it'd be a sure recipe for divorce."

Well, I guess you know more about that than me, since I have been married 25 years without a divorce. If I see my wife doing something (or planning to do something) that will physically or mentally be detrimental to her, it is my DUTY as her husband to intercede (and she as well for me). Could I/would I physically stop her if I had to? Depends on the situation. If there was a clear and present danger of death, maiming, or disfigurement, yes I would. But, I have never had to. When I express my concern about something, and she as well with me, we usually stop, consider each others feelings, and modify or change our positions. Yes, this causes some fights (vociferous "negotiations," if you will) in the short run, but in the long run, we both know we do it because we love each other and want to spend the rest of our lives with each other. An example--when we were dating, my wife smoked. When we started to get serious, I let it be known that I did not like her smoking because I loved her and did not want to see her health affected by smoking. It got very heated--to the point I stopped seeing her until she quit. Well, she quit and has been thanking me for not "allowing" her to smoke ever since.

After doing Tri's she was diagnosed with cancer,she always wanted to do IM as was already signed up and training for at time of diagnosis, She took a break during Chemo to give it a try,she did not want to quit............This is all speculative and what I wrote is made up............But I will not judge without any facts..............I have a freind who has helped His wife train for 3 IM and she has DNF all three times(terrible asthma). She is going for number 4. I believe He would do anything to help her accomplish her goals.And for us who know her,we would too.

Bottom line.................We just do not know the facts on these two.

Vulgar? Interesting analysis there sig. Am I any more off base than clm telling Demmerly over, and over, and over, and over ad nauseum, that he needs professional help ("serious" in her words) to get over his ex? And it is awfully presumptious of you to awesome that I am a male. By the way it is spelled chauvinistic most commonly.

Based on the fact that they had completed a number of triathlons in S.A. previously and done well - the likelihood is that she had some sort of illness or injury that made him worry. He may have tried to talk her out of racing. Been told to worry about his own F%^%$%g race and then found that he could continue on from T1 with out waiting to make sure she was okay. Again all speculation. Maybe she normally beats him out of the water and he noticed that her bike was still there and became worried?

The point remains. Why should we really care?

clm, I am increasingly becoming annoyed by your constant negativity towards the performance of others. I don't like your elitist attitude. I am a FOP swimmer and BOP finisher. You don't hear me constantly bitching about the slow swimmers that start at the front of the pack and don't know the proper etiquette for swimming in a pack. I know that many of these people are complaining about my being in front of them on the bike and having to pass me. Instead I understand that this is part of being in a growing sport and enjoy my own race and personal sense of accomplishment. Have I done and Ironman - no. I switched careers last year - I am now the low guy on the totem pole working far too many hours with a new baby at home and an hour commute each way. There is no way I could do an ironman in the next few years. I am happy racing with Cerveloguy in the Subaru and Multisport sprint and olympic series here in Ontario.

In short, clm - stop being such a bitch.

---

____________________________________________

"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

Amen.

Thanks for the spelling lesson. Next you have to give me a typing lesson. And, yes, Tom does need professional help to get over his ex but Cathy did not ever say Tom didn't do well in his races because he was without a woman.
Nuff said because Cathy does not need me to defend her as she is more than capable herself.

Bob Sigerson

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they shouldn't be DQ'd or penalized. They should be, from their background, they know the rules, they broke them, they should be penalized for it.

My point was that they don't deserve to get ripped apart on some internet message board because of it. Espicially from a group of people that don't know the situtation.

<<That guy isn't helping her out - he's helping himself to some of her nutrition on the sly.

A technique I'm fond of myself. >>

ROFLMAO!

Him: "Honey-quick-look down, you're about to drop your chain!"

Her: "Huh? Oh my gosh!"

Him (thinking): "Bananna Blast-my favorite"

A few miles later...

Him: "Honey, are you flatting?"

Brett