LOL....well, that may well be true, but it is clearly a helluva lot more than you know by comparison.

And glad I could help you with your understanding of what "cheating" is.....

C-Ya....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

First I want to say that I believe Lance used PED's.

However I'm having a problem with Hamilton's story. It seems to Hollywood. Lance walking around giving drops of testosterone to other cyclists. Hamilton makes him out to be like a drug dealer. Like he mentioned calling Lance one time to get hooked up with EPO on their "special" cell phones. WTF. What is this the Wire? If Lance and the head's of the team were really that concerned about getting caught wouldn't they be a little more discrete?

Another problem is the storing of all these drugs etc in the refridgerators of the team van and hotel rooms. I thought these rooms/vans were inspected periodically? It seems like someone would have caught them. Plus if they were handing out "white lunch bags" with PED's in them, I can't believe that over seven years someone didn't lose a bag or leave one behind.

Again, I believe Lance wasn't clean, however Hamilton's interview seems a little too sensational.

If Hamilton lied to the grand jury, he will be facing jail time.

I think a few people posting in this thread need to repeat that to themselves a few times.

Manalo Saiz is coming out of retirement to lead things up. It will all be good....

I don't think their credibility is in the gutter. They have followed a very clear and logical path when you consider their motivation behind each action.

Agreed.

When they first tested positive it was the usual deny everything and defending their position with complete and absolute confidence.

Now, being perhaps desperate financially, and with all the information now out on the table, they reverse course 180 degrees and say, "we were taking drugs all along"!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Where did you get that idea? The riders get tested in and out of competition but I've never heard of authorities having the right to search their personal belongings at will.

To : One has to assume that a large part of the motivation on Landis and Hamilton's part for all this public confession and talk, is money.
I do not assume that. From many comments it seems many do not assume that. I do not think they can make that MUCH money. Its been a year for Landis, how much has he made. When Floyd came out last year it seems maybe bitterness, getting even plus a mixture? I do not know. Tyler, I think the motivation was being forced to testify before the grand jury. Reporters going to him..............."We have your testimony, you want to comment". He decied yes, George decided "no". Maybe, just maybe, when you walk around living a public lie for years it ways on you and you just need an excuse to clear your concience. Maybe But no, I do not assume it must be for money

"Now, being perhaps desperate financially, and with all the information now out on the table, they reverse course 180 degrees and say, "we were taking drugs all along"!

The TV show was a choice, the forthcoming book is a choice, the grand jury wasn't.

The TV show was a choice, the forthcoming book is a choice, the grand jury wasn't.

Agreed.

Of course both men are aided and abetted by a U.S. media that is obsessed with this sort of thing - cash-in and come-clean with a public confess-all all of some sort be it a book, TV-interview or in print. It's real reality TV! Of course, we still don't know if what they are saying is the absolute truth( although it seems to be heading in that direction). That's all beside the point, viewers watch, advertisers pay money or books are bought - and all is good! The frustrating thing, for people that choose to actually look into the details and want to know the details beyond the sensationalist headlines, is that we never get to the actual truth!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I didn't watch the interview but the white bags thing sounds suspicious if only because EPO must be refrigerated until use. IIRC the guys who talked about usage said they microdosed so had to stretch out their injections and had to keep some around for a while in the fridge. Did they get white paper bags several times a day?

I may be wrong on random inspections. However, the Italian Police just raided Team Radio Shack's hotel room in the Giro. You don't think the French Police wouldn't have found a reason to raid Lance's room at some point?

http://velonews.competitor.com/...hotel-at-giro_175603

Fleck, I can't believe you're missing this.

Floyd and Tyler are totally different here. With Floyd's story you can perhaps say it's financially motivated since there seemed no other event that forced his turn-around. But there are a couple HUGE holes in the 'he's trying to sell a book' theory regarding Landis. First off, his book was revealed to be total bullshit by his admission - how do you think sales for 'Positively False' are doing in 2011? Do you think the publisher is even still printing it?

Secondly, if he were getting ready to release a book based on his new stance and admissions.... where is it? Unless he's writing it in secret, and taking his sweet time about it, it doesn't seem like anything's in the offing. And I guarantee you he isn't making any money off his weird twitter alter-egos.

As far as TH is concerned - yes, he's writing a book. But the 60 minutes report clearly focused on what he told the Grand Jury, after being subpoenaed. If his account of what he told the GJ was true, then the book becomes irrelevant to the question of whether or not he's telling the truth overall. You DO NOT lie to the grand jury if you want to stay out of jail. He would have to be a very stupid man to perjure himself in sworn testimony, and he at least appears relatively intelligent.

The central issue here with TH is not what's in his book - the book's not out yet. It's what he told the GJ.

I said I'd never heard of a search. They certainly aren't routine and if they happen would likely require a warrant and would be publicized like the recent inspection on Team Radioshack. If Lance's room had been inspected by the Police I think we would have heard about it.

AFAIK microdosing is relatively new method to use EPO.

> You DO NOT lie to the grand jury if you want to stay out of jail.

Exactly. And this is probably the prosectuor's whole strategy if he's following the Bonds model. Not to really prosecute for mis-use of funds or drug use, but to gather enough evidence testimony to bring Lance himself before a Grand Jury, and put Lance in a position where he has to a) tell the truth, or b) lie.

If Lance is indeed guilty, that's probably lose-lose scenario.

I'll be interesting to see if Lance wants to testify before the Grand Jury. Somehow I doubt it. I'll be interesting if the prosecutor invites him.

I agree with you on everything you said in Hamilton's case.

Regarding Landis, he's setting up for the next book! ;-)

"Positively False" is exactly that right now - absolutely false! It's a giant lie!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Unless there's some peep of evidence that he's even thinking about a 'next book' we don't really have any reason to assume that there ever will be such a thing.

What's the penalty for ignoring a subpoena?

Well, they're either lying now or they were previously. If they lied previously, then one could estimate that they're motivated to tell the truth now by money, bitterness, and/or the threat of incarceration. If they told the truth beofre and are now lying, then one could estimate that they're motivated now only by money and/or bitterness. Which scenario is more likely?

Even if partially motivated by bitterness or money now, that doesn't mean their statements are false. Questionable on the timing perhaps, but not necessarily false.

Well, they're either lying now or they were previously. If they lied previously, then one could estimate that they're motivated to tell the truth now by money, bitterness, and/or the threat of incarceration. If they told the truth beofre and are now lying, then one could estimate that they're motivated now only by money and/or bitterness. Which scenario is more likely?

With almost all athletes who test positive, the knee-jerk reaction is to deny, deny, deny. It is the extraordinarily rare situation with a first positive test, for an athlete to ever say, "Yes, I took the dope". In fact, I am trying to think of this ever happening. I know that in a couple of situations with second positives and subsequent life bans, they have come out and admitted, that all along they were taking drugs.

David Millar, after some time, did come forward and admit that he was taking PED's - but at first, like all others he was in the total denial camp.

In fact, it's always deny, deny, deny until they are put under oath and then have to admit the truth - or face criminal charges for perjury. It was this way in Canada with the Ben Johnson saga. Up until the day before he appeared under-oath at the Dubin Inquiry, he was saying he was completely clean!! Then of course it all came out!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

If it came down to just the accusations by Flandis (or Ty-Ty), then LA would have a reasonable case for discrediting them. But as this case builds, and when you factor in all the other (admittedly) circumstantial evidence, it paints a pretty clear case that LA doped. I don't see how any reasonable, objective person can think otherwise.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I don't know if you realize this but there is no IQ test or educational requirement to become a national level cyclist. Some people are not at the level where they are able to think and scheme and plan all the details out of a doping regime. They need someone who has the knowledge/know how/etc to control their actions. Look at Lance during an interview, he is charismatic, exciting, likeable. Floyd and Tyler are far from this. Some people are leaders, and some are followers. This was also back in 99-'01 so I would imagine Lance couldn't see into the future and realize he would be the head of a major organization, win the TdF multiple times, etc. Once that happened he seems to be a lot more careful about who he lets do what. Also, didn't Millar have EPO sitting out on his fireplace? When you have to take drugs every couple of days for a decade I am sure there are times where you will slip.

You also contradict yourself saying they should be really discrete about their drug use, then that over time they should of lost/forgotten one of their lunch bags. I don't see anything sensational about his interview at all. And I don't know how you could say that considering everything he said was already public knowledge.

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

Isn't there an option c) to plead the fifth and say nothing?

Yeah, but pleading the fifth only applies to actual crimes, right?

Like if you're testifying as a witness to a shooting, you can't plead the fifth based on the fact that you were out with your mistress at the time and don't want your wife to find out you weren't staying late at work....

you can plead the 5th so as to not incriminate yourself

but you cannot plead the 5th so as to not incriminate someone else.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter