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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
I’m cautious that that kona performance may be an outlier for him - people say it’s his coming of age race. That he is on the up…. Call me a pessimist but I think there is a chance it was just one hell of a good race and not a sign of where he is heading. I’m probably wrong, however he is laughing with what he now gets from it.

4th at both PTO Opens, towards the front of the StG world champs most of the day - 23...

Pretty solid year.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
I’m cautious that that kona performance may be an outlier for him - people say it’s his coming of age race. That he is on the up…. Call me a pessimist but I think there is a chance it was just one hell of a good race and not a sign of where he is heading. I’m probably wrong, however he is laughing with what he now gets from it.

I think Sams performance was a long time coming and probably a result of a decade of hard work.

He left home at about 14 to live and train in the national academy. I think it may take another couple of years to be consistently top podium but I think he is a solid all rounder with a good career in front of him.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Sam is usually one of the first to come out of the water. Add in a strong bike and you have an athlete out front for all to see advertising your product. I personally recall seeing Sam getting a ton of TV/Online coverage with the PTO races and of course Kona while biking.

"Heart Rate, Watts, I have no idea, I race, I don't pace." Andrew Starykowicz
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know what helmet he is in now?
The Visor looks like a kask style.
Was a Met Drone in the past.

Full-time Engineer / Part-time Pro Triathlete
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/benwgoodfellow/
Strava - https://www.strava.com/athletes/3085032
Website - https://benwgoodfellow.wixsite.com/bengoodfellow
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [habbywall] [ In reply to ]
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I've been eyeing that Radsport Ibert adapter, it's pricey though especially ordering to Canada. Does the spacer still allow you to hide the e-tube wires and hold the drinking straw like the stock spacers? I was hesitant to buy it because of that.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Sebi got away 1x on the bike too…. Then never again. Sam will never be alone at the front, especially at a WC race, and we will see penalties for the riding he did there in the future. Kona was a “perfect” day for him. All athletes know those are rare.

Even the Norwegians doubted him at the front in Kona.

If he was an employee of mine and I was doing a “9 Box” on him, I’d say “Too Soon To Tell”
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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Sbernardi wrote:
Sebi got away 1x on the bike too…. Then never again. Sam will never be alone at the front, especially at a WC race, and we will see penalties for the riding he did there in the future. Kona was a “perfect” day for him. All athletes know those are rare.

Even the Norwegians doubted him at the front in Kona.

If he was an employee of mine and I was doing a “9 Box” on him, I’d say “Too Soon To Tell”


The kid is 24 years old, he has (arguably) the strongest swim/bike combo in the field with his running continuously improving. And yet, you are writing him off already as a one hit wonder and disregarding his performance as illegal. He cracked AB on the bike in Edmonton, and mind you, AB seemed awfully close to his wheel when Laidlow was in front wheras Laidlow was keeping the legal distance when he was at the back. So not a 1 x.

I think he will prove you wrong.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Some athletes break through and stay there, some athletes have a "career" day and then settle for top 10ish type of results for the rest of their career. I'm much less interested at times in the final result, than I am at people who "make" the race happen. SL imo is one of those guys. His ability is going to make others have to make key decisions in terms of bike effort etc. Maybe it works out and maybe it doesn't but I think he's going to be a key player in how the races unfold.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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I’m not writing him off. I’m saying that the professionals let him ride away because they doubted him. They won’t let that happen again.

As far as illegal, IMO he has done a few things to question his integrity. He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally. He also decided to do the Hoala swim without registering and assumed he could win it, crossing the line first.

He needs to hold himself to a higher standard. Again just my opinion.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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My guess is that he is really breaking through. He seems to have all the ingredients to be a successful modern age long course triathlete: ITU background, years of specific triathlon training since a young age, unquestionable talent, great bike position, etc.. Some personality traits are not the greatest (e.g. crashing the Ho'ala swim) but he blows races to pieces which I find exciting to watch.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Some athletes break through and stay there, some athletes have a "career" day and then settle for top 10ish type of results for the rest of their career. I'm much less interested at times in the final result, than I am at people who "make" the race happen. SL imo is one of those guys. His ability is going to make others have to make key decisions in terms of bike effort etc. Maybe it works out and maybe it doesn't but I think he's going to be a key player in how the races unfold.

In this regard, he's a bit like LCB moving to Cube. An athlete you know who will be at the front making all the key moves, with potentially hours of camera time (or at least a feature in the NBC broadcast)? Regardless of how well he'll do in the future (especially on the run), you at least know you'll get lots of shots of your bike on camera.

(Though LCB is obviously more of a proven contender)
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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Sbernardi wrote:
I’m not writing him off. I’m saying that the professionals let him ride away because they doubted him. They won’t let that happen again.

As far as illegal, IMO he has done a few things to question his integrity. He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally. He also decided to do the Hoala swim without registering and assumed he could win it, crossing the line first.

He needs to hold himself to a higher standard. Again just my opinion.
He broke the course bike record yet they let him ride away?

Why wouldn't you chase the moto if it is available to you. Certainly not the first and won't be the last to do that. He is out alone on the road so hardly any blocking concerns and should be up to them to keep their distance... Up to marshals to determine if he was doing anything illegal. Lange using a team mate for the win on the bike is more of a concern to me.

Who hasn't done the Hoala swim illegally as a race prep it sells out. Albeit most of us generally just pull off to the side not go to the finish. Good on him he can get away with it.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
I’m not writing him off. I’m saying that the professionals let him ride away because they doubted him. They won’t let that happen again.
He broke the course bike record yet they let him ride away?

As if the others could just choose to keep up with that bike power and not risk a blowup on the run.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [WhittleFit] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody spotted what Aerobars and saddle he has mounted? (at least on the photos from IG, for now)
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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Sbernardi wrote:
He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally.

Anyone at the front of the race going as hard as they can would chase the moto. Its the moto's responsibility to keep the correct distance not the athletes. What is he supposed to do slow down and let the moto decide who gets to T2 first?

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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earthling wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally.


Anyone at the front of the race going as hard as they can would chase the moto. Its the moto's responsibility to keep the correct distance not the athletes. What is he supposed to do slow down and let the moto decide who gets to T2 first?
Athletes are required by the rules to keep to the right side of the lane, unless passing. Whereas Laidlow veered into the centre several times (and that was just those captured and broadcast) we saw minimal examples of KB or Iden (leading the chase) 'wandering' over to the centre lane (when a moto just happened to be close). Your 'chasing the moto' deliberately seeking advantage can also be judged against the 'fair play' rule.
He had a great ride and his competitors will never underestimate his run again (though I bet we see another run blow up like at Bolton in IM UK 2021 and at the Collins Cup). Canyon is his 2023 weapon of choice, lubricated by a decent stipend and bonus regime. Maybe he'll make more than one 'A' race podium in 2023, but I doubt it: his poor run will make it very difficult.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
earthling wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally.


Anyone at the front of the race going as hard as they can would chase the moto. Its the moto's responsibility to keep the correct distance not the athletes. What is he supposed to do slow down and let the moto decide who gets to T2 first?
Athletes are required by the rules to keep to the right side of the lane, unless passing. Whereas Laidlow veered into the centre several times (and that was just those captured and broadcast) we saw minimal examples of KB or Iden (leading the chase) 'wandering' over to the centre lane (when a moto just happened to be close). Your 'chasing the moto' deliberately seeking advantage can also be judged against the 'fair play' rule.
.

Discussed ad nauseam in a number of post Kona threads. He was judged - by the race referee, who was happy to let him finish without penaly. If Blu or Iden or anyone else was in his position how do we know they would not have done exactly the same thing? Riding in the lead of a race is different from riding in the pack or following your team mate - he only has the moto for company. Its harder riding on your own.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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It’s harder to ride on your own at the front? What?

You don’t get to ride anywhere you want in races because you are the leader;. Every athlete has positions they are required by the rules to ride in. Whether that’s a position, blocking or passing rules . They may not be penalized but you don’t get to ride any place you want just because you are the race leader.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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earthling wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
earthling wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally.
Anyone at the front of the race going as hard as they can would chase the moto. Its the moto's responsibility to keep the correct distance not the athletes. What is he supposed to do slow down and let the moto decide who gets to T2 first?

Athletes are required by the rules to keep to the right side of the lane, unless passing. Whereas Laidlow veered into the centre several times (and that was just those captured and broadcast) we saw minimal examples of KB or Iden (leading the chase) 'wandering' over to the centre lane (when a moto just happened to be close). Your 'chasing the moto' deliberately seeking advantage can also be judged against the 'fair play' rule.
.
Discussed ad nauseam in a number of post Kona threads. He was judged - by the race referee, who was happy to let him finish without penaly. If Blu or Iden or anyone else was in his position how do we know they would not have done exactly the same thing? Riding in the lead of a race is different from riding in the pack or following your team mate - he only has the moto for company. Its harder riding on your own.
Not penalising Laidlow was in the interests of the race. I can envisage the discussions in 'race control' - we heard how the video crew were remarking how much moto-chasing Laidlow was doing. I wish the head ref had also been able to control their on-road referees (and not penalise) Ditlev after he'd stopped at special needs and then buried himself to get back onto the Norges plus Neumann trio.
It would have degenerated into a Norges running together fest. The anticipation of when Laidlow would blow kept us going for almost 2 hours, heading back into town.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jan 20, 23 8:18
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
earthling wrote:
Sbernardi wrote:
He was absolutely chasing the moto in Kona. There’s no doubt. If you read the rules and apply fairly to all, he was riding illegally.


Anyone at the front of the race going as hard as they can would chase the moto. Its the moto's responsibility to keep the correct distance not the athletes. What is he supposed to do slow down and let the moto decide who gets to T2 first?
Athletes are required by the rules to keep to the right side of the lane, unless passing. Whereas Laidlow veered into the centre several times (and that was just those captured and broadcast) we saw minimal examples of KB or Iden (leading the chase) 'wandering' over to the centre lane (when a moto just happened to be close). Your 'chasing the moto' deliberately seeking advantage can also be judged against the 'fair play' rule.
He had a great ride and his competitors will never underestimate his run again (though I bet we see another run blow up like at Bolton in IM UK 2021 and at the Collins Cup). Canyon is his 2023 weapon of choice, lubricated by a decent stipend and bonus regime. Maybe he'll make more than one 'A' race podium in 2023, but I doubt it: his poor run will make it very difficult.


Who ran faster than laidlow at kona apart from iden and kb? Not sure I’d say he has a poor run anymore…
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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fulla wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
He had a great ride and his competitors will never underestimate his run again (though I bet we see another run blow up like at Bolton in IM UK 2021 and at the Collins Cup). Canyon is his 2023 weapon of choice, lubricated by a decent stipend and bonus regime. Maybe he'll make more than one 'A' race podium in 2023, but I doubt it: his poor run will make it very difficult.
Who ran faster than laidlow at kona apart from iden and kb? Not sure I’d say he has a poor run anymore…
Only Neumann and Lange, with Skipper and Hanson in #6 and #7. It was an excellent run, all the more so after burying himself with that 4:04 ride: unbelievable, till Palani.
https://stats.protriathletes.org/...-hawaii/2022/results
His runs in 2023 will speak for themselves. In 2021/22 it was 3:04 (22 minutes slower than Skipper) at Bolton UK, DNF Almere, DNF South Africa, a (sensible) DNF in Texas and then a 2:55 at IMWC2021 (St George) 17 minutes slower than KB.
But, hey, it's a triathlon and with a top-notch s/b he can hang in there for good placings (see Edmonton and Dallas).
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
It’s harder to ride on your own at the front? What? .

Well I always find it a lot easier and motivational when I have something ahead of me to chase. Time trialling on an open road with nothing ahead takes a lot of concentration and sooner or later the mind wanders. Riding in a pack or at legal distance to your team mate to share the load makes life faster and helps keep your concentration - at least I think so.

I think you will find when you are leading the race you do get to ride where you want - within the limits of the rule book of course. Sam obviously complied.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think that's the case, but if you are using this as evidence that you can ride anywhere you want, fair enough. I would be cautious of using the excuse that your "mind wandered" as to justifying you riding all over the road. But that's just my own interpertation of the rules, you may see differently. As I said in that thread that debated the issue, it was enough for the commentators to comment on it several times.

(If the refs believed he didn't break any rules fair enough as a coach, I wouldn't instruct my athletes to behave with the mindset you are suggesting with front of race riders. I'm pretty sure "riding right" is the prescribed riding position at all times minus a few instances (safety, passing, etc). So again he may have not been dinged but I'm not really sure what you are suggesting is correct either. Also there are plenty of times athletes break rules that never are faulted for it, so excusing it because the ref's didn't call it isn't always the best justification).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jan 19, 23 14:25
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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If it is the fastest place to ride and the ref's deem it legal then it is the smartest place to ride. Seems pretty simple to me?
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Re: Sam Laidlow joins Canyon [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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What position are you suggesting again? “Chasing the moto”?

Maybe I’m just old school but I find riding to the rules as the simplist position. No chasing motos, no swerving all over because I’m losing mental focus Just head down to the right, That’s the simpliest position.

So if you’re telling me the leader gets to ride anywhere he wants we will just agree to disagree, so all good.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jan 19, 23 17:37
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