if you look at the poll on the site right now you can see with precision.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I did see that. I was meaning more that this is a small sample size, from a niche sport, with what I “think” has a somewhat limited geographic distribution. Having said that, I know that is the intent of the poll. I was just a bit shocked by some of the comments in the thread.

well, of course i don't know what shocked you. but if what you think you see is a divergence between the comments in the thread from the results of the poll, then let this be a lesson: those who comment are not always - or even usually - reflective of the masses. this is why we have a comment section, and a quiet poll, so you can see what people really think.

now, as to how reflective the poll is, why don't you do a little investigating on the samples sizes of major national polls. it's not the sample size that's as important as the poll questions, and how the polling cohort is chosen. in this case, in our polls, we're about 2/3 north american. mostly male. specifically interested in a particular avocation.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Correct, which is why I said I get polling that specific demographic was the intent of the poll.
My comment was more of a “I hope these comments are representative of a majority in the country right now” because frankly, some of the distaste for humanity is a little scary.
Last, I find it interesting because I think there exists certain “bubbles” in our country right now. For example, imagine someone in South Dakota reading this thread (I am in Florida). We are talking about vaccination to race when there are places that have been, and are still, permitting and having races. I can imagine someone in Cali absolutely is like “yes, if it’s gets us racing and back to normal let’s do this” and someone elsewhere being like “that seems unnecessary because we are already racing”
Anyways, neither here nor there but more of where my mind went.

Cheers

Given that the poll is asking a biased/leading question, the result was utterly predictable.
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Hence I didn’t vote. I would think many did see it the same.

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I agree that the poll question was imperfect. It implied the race is not happening without a vaccine passport. Most triathletes will just say, "well, I would rather have a race than not, and if the race director has to claim all racers are vaccinated to get the permit, then so be it...I would rather have some racing than no racing".

On the other hand if the question was, "Would you racing nowing that others are not vaccinated Yes or No?" then it is clear cut. Its just asking if you are comfortable racing around unvaccinated people. I personally have no problem racing around unvaccinated people if I am vaccinated. I actually have no problem racing around others while being unvaccinated with distancing protocols just like I got swim at the pool around others all unvaccinated but with distancing protocols...we're not harming each other nor public health.

But I have no issue if a private race director tells me that I cannot do his/her race without a vaccination. I am going to get it anyway, so its a none topic for me.

the poll was worded exactly as i intended, and exactly as you described. i don't want to get into the politics of it. the poll was designed to answer one question, and specifically avoided all other questions. those who think the poll is biased are, i suspect, spoiling for a ideological fight, and are miffed that the poll question is narrow in scope. yes, i could have worded the poll differently, as in, "do you think a vaccine passport infringes in personal liberty?" but i'm not interested in that question. hence the way the poll question was worded. those who want to ask a different question can start a thread and as the question they want answered.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The “biased” comment came from an expected source.

well, it didn't hit me from left field. but to each his own. btw, i checked out the healthvana link and i could not figure out how to create an account. usually pretty easy, you click sign in, and prompts those who don't have account to create one. i could not find that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

If I am being honest, I’m not sure how I ended up registered with them except apparently the vax provider partners with them? Also looked on the site and all I could find was:

“
Residents vaccinated in cities and counties that have partnered with Healthvana will receive a digital vaccination record from us. Once we receive your vaccination information from our public health partners, you’ll receive a text and/or email that your record is ready to view. Please use the form on our Contact Us page if you have any specific questions about your digital vaccination record.”

Dan I am just saying the poll questions assumes that a gate to a race being held is the race director asks for a vaccine passport.

I am ok if that is what is needed for races to happen..

But I am also OK simply answering if I would race around unvaccinated athletes. I am OK to do that. Others may not. But this is a more simple single tier question. The poll is a two tier question.

For my company I am doing exactly that.

The office is effectively opening with a vaccine passport. You can go in and use it once vaccinated. If not stay home work from home and collect your paycheque. At least for now while cases and hospitalizations in my country are the highest they have been.

well, again, i guess i take issue with the poll being "biased" or "imperfect." it asks a narrow question that assumes a policy now being used in certain offices, industries, service operations and travel purveyors, allowing such industries to open earlier than they would if they waited for full community immunity.

there are other reasons why some folks might want this policy: such as, because they feel safer in that environment. but i didn't poll that question.

i also - as i have stated in this thread - feel that it may all be moot, because we may only be talking 4 or 5 months, and it may be more trouble than its worth erecting that sort of structure for a third, or half, a year.

i have no problem hearing how the poll is biased. just, not simply that it is biased. how it is biased. i haven't seen that explanation yet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

See I read it how it seems like you intended. The way I read it is basically like “would you provide proof of a vaccine if that was required for certain races to happen?” And I think it’s logical because many races not happening are because certain areas do not want unknown outsiders coming into their town to race and possibly spreading COVID. But if the RD said “hey, I am requiring everyone to show proof of a vaccine because I want to make sure no one brings the virus to your town. Does that help me get permits?” I would guess that wound help in some areas. Obviously not all but some.

We all know races are happening in certain places so if someone answered the poll with their thought being “well I’ll find another race” then to me that isn’t answering the poll by the way I read it.

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Twitter - Instagram

Every question in polling is a science. You ask a question a specific way to lead your target group to a certain space. However, I'm still shocked and somewhat appalled that so many people would say yes.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Why? I don’t care who knows that I’m vaccinated. It would also make me more willing to race if I knew everyone was vaccinated. And if it means the rd will be able to get permits for a race by us doing that I don’t see a downside. (Again, assuming the vaccine is readily available to everyone like the poll says)

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Twitter - Instagram

This is why liberalism is in trouble. By liberalism is mean the traditional definition that the chief job of gov't is to maximize personal freedoms and promote equality. Not liberals vs conservatives. Personal freedom is the water we swim in so we find the idea of having to give it up for the common good well rather foreign. The sentiment of several hundred years ago of community standards and community good has largely been replaced by the idea of rights. The issues whereby the left and right are not willing to yield personal freedom are different but both sides have great trouble giving up personal freedom for the common good at some point.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Truth. A while ago, I led a team that led the world’s largest telephone survey. The questions were peer-reviewed for months by public health scientists to ensure minimal bias. It is extremely hard to conduct an objective survey.

Yeah, some people actually go through the trouble thinking about what they sign off on and about the implications of their vote.

The poll was/is suggesting a highly unlikely, hypothetical and conditional scenario (2 conditionals actually), that is leading to the obvious (and on first sight reasonable) answer YES.
(It would also make the question irrelevant, as no passport would be needed).

I can’t answer in good faith NO to the exact question (even if it’s obvious to me and the pollster that the conditionals can’t be met).
And I am absolutely sure about that (Not ‘UNSURE‘).

Now Slowman himself post-hoc admits these conditions are unlikely/unrealistic to occur for the timeframe suggested.
Which then leads to the obvious ’endgame’ on how the tally was to be presented (also see played out above):

‘Most are in favor of a vaccine passport’,
(never mind these superfluous conditionals).

So, I would not be happy to have been counted as signing off on that predictable interpretation/presentation of my ‘YES’ ‘vote’.

I just see that Slowman had asked for input how to better word it as it went up.
My bad, I missed that.
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Either way. Enjoyed how this predictably played out.
One got to hand it to Slowman, he is a convincing and great tactician, strategist, influencer. Chapeau!
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Because if you answer no, you are saying that you would rather not have the race held. You are not given the option of having the race without a vaccination passport. That is how it is biased.

As I see it if you are vaccinated you shouldn't care less on whether the rest of the people are vaccinated for as long as it is possible to hold the race. It would make sense that you are required a PCR proof, because in that case if you are not vaccinated you would want to know that others have tested negative. By the way, you can be vaccinated and still transmit the virus.

"By the way, you can be vaccinated and still transmit the virus."

AND still get covid, AND still die from it.

i don't think slowman admitted that at all. i never thought, a year ago, that we would still be in this place, of not having races permissible by host venues. what i do know is that vaccine requirements or passports, in one form or another, are being used right now. so, i don't see this as far fetched. i just don't know if we'll need them for a long enough period of time to warrant the hassle.

thank god we have you, the future seer.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

since 7 out of 10 of your brethren fall into that category, one might inquire into why they voted as they did.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I would like a system where all can race, but you get a green or red wristband, green for vaccinated, red for not, so you know who to stay away from.

And sure, it’s hard to require absolute proof, so let’s say it’s an honor system.

Those who are so hard against the vaccine, those who see it as a point of pride not to get it, they won’t lie to get a green wristband. They will wear their red band proudly for all to see.

And I will give them plenty of space.

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

Not here (US). I suppose it varies by state, public/private school, etc. but currently there is no vaccine requirement for kids to attend school in person. They just have to fill out this little self-screening questionnaire once a week that has questions like do you have a fever? have you travelled to China, etc.?

Honestly, I'm not sure kids can even get vaccinated here yet. I don't mean that they are not part of eligible phase, I mean that I don't think the FDA has even approved it yet for school age children. It could be different for your country though.

This seems to be the winning thread closing statement that I'd be all over!!! Nice suggestion! Now I just need the pharmacy to call me to get my Astrazeneca so I can get in the green band category and not wear red. If I wear red, its not cause I dont want green, its cause my government is as slow as molasses on giving me access to the coveted green band.