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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
And just like that... a cyclist was killed by a motorist 15 minutes from my house this morning.

The only way it is going to become more safe for cyclists to ride on the roads is for more cyclists to ride on the roads. I am selective in choosing the roads that I ride and I feel some fear during every ride on the roads, but one of the reasons I continue to ride on the roads is because if we all stop riding on the roads except for races, we'll eventually lose the right to ride on the roads, including races.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Oct 3, 19 8:11
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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louisn wrote:
AHermrmmm !!

http://pedbikeinfo.org/...res/facts_safety.cfm

That's more than 80% for motorised vehicles, less than 20% for both cyclists and pedestrians (lots more pedestrians than cyclists).


Louis :-)
You're both talking about different things.
Relative numbers of motorists/pedestrians/cyclists killed does not tell you which is more dangerous or the probability of being hit unless you know how much time is spent doing each or how many people participate in each, or how many journeys utilise each activity.

Very few people die each year base jumping, or being launched into space. That's not because these are really, really safe activities, it's because they are relatively uncommon.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [kdw] [ In reply to ]
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kdw wrote:
And nobody should ever be completely happy with their power...you should always want more!

Is that the FTP version of the old boater "2 Footitist" saying - Regardless of the size of boat you have, the one you want is 2 feet longer?

We could call it "10 Wattitist."

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
Also for the poster above about watching movies. I also CANNOT do it. I cant even listen to music. The only thing I have is an Ipad with TrainerRoad and the hum of the trainer to keep me company.

That'll build mental toughness for sure, but again, try to put in some skill sessions outside as well. If you don't like traffic, go find some residential neighborhoods and make a point of taking as many turns as you can. Do loops if you can and try to make each corner faster than before and brake later and later until you take the thing without hitting the brakes at all. You can seriously lose 1-2 seconds per corner if not more. And depending on the course, that could be a couple minutes over an IM. We literally spend $1000s to shave off a minute and many hours to get those extra couple Watts (You're essentially giving up 4-6 Watts) so it would be silly to not work on cornering.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
Thom wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:


It is NOT a joke. I love my 3:30am workouts. Im excited about them when I go to sleep. Even my 3-6 hour rides on Sun, im on the bike by 4am at the latest.

I love watching the sun come up.


So one of your arguments for indoor training is that you can watch the sun come up? You must be able to see how some of us find that strange, right?

I dont see why that is strange. I train at the time I am most productive in training. For me, it is before daylight. This also goes for swimming and running. Pool opens at 5am. I am at the door at 4:50am in case the lifeguards get there early.

I had to come up with this plan and mentally prepare for it every night in the beginning. This was my trade off to doing an Ironman. Training couldnt impact work. Training couldnt impact family. That left one area that I could impact... sleep. Train when everyone else is asleep. I grew to love it.

Btw, today was strength day and I was at the gym at 4:40am.

Also for the poster above about watching movies. I also CANNOT do it. I cant even listen to music. The only thing I have is an Ipad with TrainerRoad and the hum of the trainer to keep me company.

If you're up that early, there can't be that much traffic on the roads. Get some good lights and go outside.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [AquaBikePatti65] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in the same boat as well, my last outdoor ride (and swim) was IMLP 70.3 and since then I've had two eye surgeries which kept me from riding confidently outside , nonetheless I've been keeping up my bike fitness and have turned my focus to improving my running.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
snip........I continue to ride on the roads is because if we all stop riding on the roads except for races, we'll eventually lose the right to ride on the roads, including races.


Had a similar thought this week with a cycling friend. I called animal control about homeowner that has several aggressive dogs. I let the group know where the house is located and one of my friends suggested I change a training route to avoid the home. I am not going to change the road I have been using for years when there is a law for unleashed dogs, there is a county animal control department that enforces that law and a homeowner that fully realizes that this is a common route for cyclist to use in training. In 2017 I hit a dog at 30 mph and was hurt fairly bad along with a torn PCL. I called animal control and they picked up the dog and never saw it again.

I agree and will do my part so that I (we) can use these roads without fear or intimidation. I let the group know and hope to report this weekend if the dogs are gone or contained. We shouldn't have to change what we do out of fear of being attacked or hitting the dog or getting hit by a car.

I do train inside during the weekdays for other reasons and must admit that I get better structured training from that than cycling on the road. Some of the previous bike handling skills comments do baffle me a bit, but I am a non-competitive roadie and can handle myself really well if and when I do ride in a no mercy group ride. For the most part these days I am solo in aero on a tri bike on the weekends.

I do appreciate and respect the choice of the OP and others if they are content training inside all the time.
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Oct 3, 19 9:57
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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endosch2 wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:
endosch2 wrote:


I live in a rural mountainous area. I ride outside about 150 times a year. Yesterday I rode outside for probably the 6000th time without incident or fear. There is always risk, but I don't want to live in fear.


Where do you live if you don't mind me asking you? I live in a rural mountainous area as well but it's not very safe with an increasing population that is either distracted on their phones or rednecks being bullies with their large vehicles. We've had a handful of cycling deaths too. I'm outside of Burlington, VT.

I see both sides of riding indoors and those who ride outside more. This past season I did the most indoor training on the bike ever to be safer. I can't say if I increased my fitness or not as there were too many variables and my Ironman this year was extremely different than 2018's IM.

Here are a few things I'm planning on doing for 2020 to try and make my indoor training better while also getting outside a bit.

-moving pain cave to a better area of the basement. Going to turn the other half into a dedicated training room for the bike and strength training. Will put up sheet rock and flooring. And do some fun creative things to this area. This will make it a bit nicer for all the long hours on the bike.

-Going to have coach move long trainer rides in the winter to Friday mornings and ride my fat bike on Saturday with the husband and friends. This is fun, gets us outside in the fresh air and surprisingly gives us a good workout and a good practice with bike handling skills.

-ride my cross bike outside on Saturdays during the spring on our hilly dirt roads which are much safer and less traveled. Hard to drive over 40 mph. Then get on the tri bike outside closer to my main Ironman.

-Summer: do some long Saturday bike rides indoors and outdoors, maybe even alternate weekends. We always start riding at 5:30-6am on Saturdays for a few safer hours of riding.

-Continue to do a few rides where first 3 hours are outside early in the morning and last 2-3 are on the bike trainer when the roads get busy. I did this a few times and it's very hard to do!!

I'm trying to be creative with balancing riding indoors and outdoors. I don't feel safe riding outside so it will only be on Saturdays but not all Saturdays where I might do a 5 hour bike inside (Sundays are less busy so that might be an option to discuss with coach and maybe run long on a week day). I do think I get a better workout indoors but do feel you need some riding outside to maintain bike handling skills. If you are only riding flat non-technical courses that's one thing. But if you choose to do hilly races with very technical descents, please get outside and practice that. Those kind of skills don't just magically manifest on the bike trainer. I saw two very bad crashes in France last month where one woman died. And every hilly race I did this year had at least one bad crash (I did 3 hilly races of my 4).

So...no point really. I guess we all have to do what's best and what feels safe. Everyone's situation is different.

If you do ride 100% on the trainer, one suggestion could be to set up some cones in a vacant parking lot and practice some bike handling skills. Just a thought.

-

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
Last edited by: 70Trigirl: Oct 3, 19 10:43
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for continuing to fight for our rights to ride safely on the roads!
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
Its funny, I originally got into cycling (3 years ago after a running injury) so that I could enjoy being outside for long periods of time. Now, I get up at 3am and ride in the sunroom in total darkness and silence, with only the TR graph in front of me.


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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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For those who ride 100% indoors, have you considered riding other types of off-road bikes during the off season? Fat tire, mountain, gravel, and cross bikes are all very good for bike handling practice where you can ride safely on trails or quiet dirt roads if available. Ride outside on our off-sesaon and then ride the trainer when it's time to buckle-down again. Gravel rides are all the rage now and rightly so. Sign up for some organized gravel rides if you have them in your area. You will definitely attain some good bike handling skills. And all of these bike alternatives are super fun and provide a nice mental break. And then when it's time to start your Ironman training (or other events) you can go back to doing most or all your riding on the trainer. Those bike handling skills you accrued during off-season won't go away.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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70Trigirl wrote:
endosch2 wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:
endosch2 wrote:


I live in a rural mountainous area. I ride outside about 150 times a year. Yesterday I rode outside for probably the 6000th time without incident or fear. There is always risk, but I don't want to live in fear.


Where do you live if you don't mind me asking you? I live in a rural mountainous area as well but it's not very safe with an increasing population that is either distracted on their phones or rednecks being bullies with their large vehicles. We've had a handful of cycling deaths too. I'm outside of Burlington, VT.


-


I live in NH. I think this whole argument about fear of riding outdoors is analogous to the gun industry putting fear into people to buy a gun for "home defense". The facts are that less people die from violent home invasions by an unknown assailant a year than die in lawnmower accidents.

For some reason people assess their own odds really badly, and are not really that honest about rational probability. Having a gun at home increases your odds of you or a family member committing suicide, or accidental discharge leading to an injury way more than any need for personal security. People want to buy a gun then they look for excuses justify their decision, certainly not based on a good read of the odds.

Deaths on bicycles have been steady over the past 10 years, and if you dig deeper into the stats you can exclude a high percentage for riding at night with no lights (something like 40% of cycling deaths) drunks, people who live in highly congested areas with lots of road cuts, etc. So the odds are not that high.

Yet we have this never ending narrative in the cycling internet world about perceived increased risk. Its always in the same breath connected to the rise of indoor training alternatives, gravel bikes, and mountain biking. When we did not have Zwift or TR no one was espousing the safety benefits of riding indoors, but now that we have those platforms and people like them they couple that with a fear of the outdoors.

I ride indoors on Trainer Road in the winter, I like it, but I like riding outside a lot more.
Last edited by: endosch2: Oct 3, 19 12:18
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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I know people cite fear of dying while cycling, but I also think a larger number of folks have been honked at aggressively and harassment might contribute to the fear and drive people inside to ride. I live just north of Boston and there have been times when my group have been on quiet suburban roads on a weekend morning (like 7am) and have gotten some aggressive drivers yelling at us (and we ride single file). It doesn't bother me, I know there are lot of people around here with short fuses and they just have to deal with it. I also highly concur with the notion that we need more people, not fewer, cycling on roads. The more cyclists retreat, the more the expectation rises that cyclists shouldn't be on roads (and of course we know training cyclists aren't welcome on popular bike paths for obvious reasons).
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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Guns: I agree about guns. Owning one won't make me safer. And I don't have the tactical expertise or training to fend off a "bad guy" with a gun. Even highly trained military and law enforcement professionals get shot to death. I'd probably make my situation worse if I did own a gun. But I know a gun debate might stir up trouble so that's all I'll say on the subject. We are friends with gun enthusiasts but do not choose to own any for ourselves.

Bikes: Too many people I know have been hit by cars. One friend who has done countless Ironmans has been hit 7 times by cars in our area. I don't understand how she still rides outside after all that. Another one was hit by a dump truck. And so many pros have been hit all over the world. Living farther away from Burlington would be safer, but you still get the redneck factor in rural Vermont. They don't like us one bit and many try to intimidate us in their huge pick up trucks. I've been called a fucking liberal just because I was riding a bike. I'm glad you feel safe riding. Maybe you are in a more rural area than myself. NH has some nice quiet roads up north. I like NH. Chittenden County in Vermont is getting too populated. I don't know one cyclist in our area who would say it's a safe place to ride. That is sad. But I'll still get out there and ride. Just not as much.

To try and mitigate the redneck problem I've considered buying a bike jersey with the American flag. They love the American flag. And maybe that would discourage the bullying or at least maybe they would give me more than a foot of space as they drive by. Anyone try that? Sorry, getting off the subject.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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70Trigirl wrote:
To try and mitigate the redneck problem I've considered buying a bike jersey with the American flag. They love the American flag. And maybe that would discourage the bullying or at least maybe they would give me more than a foot of space as they drive by. Anyone try that? Sorry, getting off the subject.


That might be the single most brilliant thing I have ever seen on ST. EDIT: definitely not pink. I love this idea.
Last edited by: matate99: Oct 3, 19 12:52
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [matate99] [ In reply to ]
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matate99 wrote:
70Trigirl wrote:
To try and mitigate the redneck problem I've considered buying a bike jersey with the American flag. They love the American flag. And maybe that would discourage the bullying or at least maybe they would give me more than a foot of space as they drive by. Anyone try that? Sorry, getting off the subject.


That might be the single most brilliant thing I have ever seen on ST. EDIT: definitely not pink. I love this idea.

lol glad you like it :-)

The other day we saw a guy riding in a bike Jersey that said US ARMY and he was getting plenty of room and respect riding on a busy road. At least more than the norm in our area. I would never want to disrespect the Army or any flag. But maybe wearing something like that would be helpful and keep us safer. I think the USA flag as a big logo on a bike jersey is a good idea if you are riding in rural America. Regular cyclists might think we ride for the US Nat'l team or something like that and the trucks might give us more room.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [matate99] [ In reply to ]
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matate99 wrote:
70Trigirl wrote:
To try and mitigate the redneck problem I've considered buying a bike jersey with the American flag. They love the American flag. And maybe that would discourage the bullying or at least maybe they would give me more than a foot of space as they drive by. Anyone try that? Sorry, getting off the subject.


That might be the single most brilliant thing I have ever seen on ST. EDIT: definitely not pink. I love this idea.

Kudos to 70Trigirl, but this isn't the first time this suggestion has been made on ST. I've worn a tri team kit that is usually red and/or blue and has the USA flag and/or the letters USA on it for the past dozen or so years and it does seem to work to keep most vehicles from buzzing me, but I also have two rear flashing lights and regularly look back at vehicles approaching me.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I didn't think I was the first person to come up with this idea. Glad it has been helping. Good news!

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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I want to do this for the majority of riding but the issue is the same as road riding for me. I would need to drive to get to paths that would allow me to ride off road for extended periods of time. I want a gravel bike so badly but the cost also gets me too. Even a "cheap" one is still not cheap. The main reason for me riding indoors is time management with an almost 2 year old and a wife. Rides are done when the wife says they can be done. So if I wait too late in the day on the weekends the roads that I am fine riding at 6 am are not fine to ride on at 10 am.

Twitter - Instagram
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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I know someone who has a small American flag attached to the rear of his bike, he thinks it helps!

For those concerned about indoor riders and bike handling skill, Zwift just released a mountain bike section with steering. Perhaps that will help with our skills (pink)!
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [abrowntd] [ In reply to ]
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abrowntd wrote:
I know someone who has a small American flag attached to the rear of his bike, he thinks it helps!

For those concerned about indoor riders and bike handling skill, Zwift just released a mountain bike section with steering. Perhaps that will help with our skills (pink)!

Oh man that's a great idea!! might even be good on my gravel bike since I ride out in some very rural areas. The trucks are usually pretty good on the dirt roads, but it might add a bit of insurance having a small USA flag on the back of my bike seat.

Or a confederate flag when I ride out in some particular rural parts of the state lol. *definitely pink*

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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70Trigirl wrote:
Yeah, I didn't think I was the first person to come up with this idea. Glad it has been helping. Good news!

Having the patriotic uni probably helps, but the fact that I live in a suburb that hosts a large charity ride likely helps a lot more. Motorists are used to seeing cyclists on the road since a lot of groups like to train on/near the route and also are more likely to know a cyclist since a lot of locals do the ride.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
One year ago yesterday was the last time I rode my bike outside, excluding triathlons. Yeah its safe, but the convenience of being able to ride anytime day or night regardless of weather, is amazing. Couple that with the structured workouts of TrainerRoad and I dont see why anyone would ride outside.

Do you monitor your FTP/CP?

If so, did you notice a significant increase in power over the past year?

My n=1 experience was that power went up considerably with focused trainer rides vs outdoor riding.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Apollo71] [ In reply to ]
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Apollo71 wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:
One year ago yesterday was the last time I rode my bike outside, excluding triathlons. Yeah its safe, but the convenience of being able to ride anytime day or night regardless of weather, is amazing. Couple that with the structured workouts of TrainerRoad and I dont see why anyone would ride outside.

Do you monitor your FTP/CP?

If so, did you notice a significant increase in power over the past year?

My n=1 experience was that power went up considerably with focused trainer rides vs outdoor riding.


Yes! And this is the biggest advantage to riding indoors... At least it is for me. Every FTP test is an increase in FTP, and that is usually every two - three months. The 20 minute tests and Ramp tests both increase.
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Re: One Year Anniversary of Only Riding Indoors [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
Thom wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:


It is NOT a joke. I love my 3:30am workouts. Im excited about them when I go to sleep. Even my 3-6 hour rides on Sun, im on the bike by 4am at the latest.

I love watching the sun come up.


So one of your arguments for indoor training is that you can watch the sun come up? You must be able to see how some of us find that strange, right?


I dont see why that is strange. I train at the time I am most productive in training. For me, it is before daylight. This also goes for swimming and running. Pool opens at 5am. I am at the door at 4:50am in case the lifeguards get there early.

I had to come up with this plan and mentally prepare for it every night in the beginning. This was my trade off to doing an Ironman. Training couldnt impact work. Training couldnt impact family. That left one area that I could impact... sleep. Train when everyone else is asleep. I grew to love it.

Btw, today was strength day and I was at the gym at 4:40am.

Also for the poster above about watching movies. I also CANNOT do it. I cant even listen to music. The only thing I have is an Ipad with TrainerRoad and the hum of the trainer to keep me company.


Now we know why. And Who's running this family :-P...

Props for the adaptation. I admire you.

LOuis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Oct 3, 19 18:51
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