It's a common strongarm douche cop thing in NYC and in Britain. I get that road.cc has a few too many incident reports with vague info, but it makes you wonder sometimes.

I think it will get to the point of a cop getting caught on camera and someone suing the city for millions if they don't stop. Often, with issues like this that aren't even bike/pedestrian related, that's the outcome.

I don't doubt it will take that in this instance.

I would never bike in that city without video recording on my bike and body.

It sounds like this park is a multi-use area. The speed limits are likely there for the safety of the other patrons also using the area. If you want to ride in a multi-use area you have to respect the rights of all of the users to be there safely.

I’m both a police officer and a cyclist. I don’t condone any of the bad behavior alleged to have been done by the police, but sometimes we as cyclists are our own worst enemies. I’ve been walking my police dog (in civilian clothes) on a local multi-use paved path and had bicyclists pass very close to me at more than 20 mph with no warning, which is not safe. I would hate to be a mother trying to take her children for a walk on that same path. I can’t count the number of times a day that I see bicyclists riding on the road and run red lights and stop signs because they think they don’t apply to them. Here, bicyclists are required to ride closest to the right edge of the roadway, but I often see riders two and three wide blocking a lane. It’s bad riding like that which makes other users dislike bicyclists.

My gut tells me this all came to be like this: citizens complained about bicyclists riding unsafely in the park, the mayor’s office told the police to put a stop to it, police went in and wrote some tickets, some bicyclists realized they could ride away from police and avoid getting a ticket, both sides started to escalate their responses, a bicycle lawyer found a couple good incidents to use as ammo against the police, and now there’s national news.

Some police don’t like to be recorded. I don’t understand why because I like having video as proof. I have a camera on my bicycle and my motorcycle because I’m most likely to be in an accident when riding. If you’re worried about getting a ticket, don’t break the law and have video proof to take to court if you are wrongly issued a citation.

This is categorically wrong from a safety standpoint, and you should know better.

Doing this invites the illegal "cheat pass" where a vehicle illegally remains in the same lane of travel to pass a cyclist due to oncoming traffic. Riding some distance from the road edge forces a vehicle to wait for oncoming and not do the "cheat pass".

This is even instructed in some photos/videos from some British based local police forces.

It bothers me when folks claiming to be cyclists post that, when it is sooooo wrong and can get folks killed telling them to stay to the far right.

It’s the law in my jurisdiction. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. I don’t know what the law is in Toronto or Britain. If you don’t think you can safely ride on a road and also follow the law, the answer isn’t to break the law. And if you feel entitled to break the law because you’ve deemed it safer, well that would be why people are complaining about cyclists.

The bolded is what my State's statute say, to the right most edge of the roadway as practicable, no more than two abreast (MN Statute 169.222 subd 4), Statute 169.011 subd 68 defines the road way as "portion of a highway improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic EXCLUSIVE of the sidewalk or shoulder. You are permitted to operate a bicycle on the shoulder.

I avoid riding in parks or on trails while on a road bike at all costs, too many people doing stupid things unpredictably. Yelling at people to make a pass to no avail as they cannot hear through their head phones.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

Post it.

You're a sad example of your job if you're going to tell people to do something that's inherently very very dangerous and can get them killed.

I can't stand folks like you. You know exactly the scenario we're talking about and you're standing likely on the old school "to the right as practicable". Which the assholes interpret as shoving bikes into the gutter and clipping them and killing them as they pass.

If you're talking about a person riding dead center of a lane, fine. If you're going to try to sit here in a forum with bike riders and tell them to ride the right white line, you're a freaking douche that's going to get someone killed and you need to be called out.

What's your jurisdiction? Maybe we should call them up and and have a chat about this one as you don't seem to understand how to interpret that pretty common law.

Where is your jurisdiction?
I ask, because I do not want to accidentally find myself riding there. Sounds dangerous.

I lived in Montana (USA) for a long time, and I carried the rules of the road in my pocket.
I've been on three group rides that were (wrongly) pulled over by police officers. It took the actual rules of the road to get them to leave us alone.

Exactly.

As practicable means don't be weaving all over the lane taking up the whole lane. It also doesn't mean to ride with your tire two inches from a low shoulder/glass/debris/mailboxes. Nevermind also it isn't practicable in corners so that approaching traffic can see you in the corner. If a cyclist has a clear straight road and is mid lane holding folks up, correct, that is a time they're wrong and it is practicable to move right.

Folks interpret this one super super wrong, frequently. And yes they get it wrong as cops also.

Learn the word practicable. Able to be done or put into practice successfully. Practicable is situational, not fixed for all situations. It's not practicable in a blind curve to ride the right white line while hitting mailboxes as you pass. It is practicable to gtfo of the center of the lane on a super straight good visibility safe situation.

Then folks get all high and mighty "I'm a cop and ya'll are just abusing this" about it.

Dude, we freaking DIE when this goes wrong. And he's telling them to do it wrong.

You sir, have made my case in point.

That you don't even know how to apply the law yourself but you come into a forum utilizing your community status as leverage to spout bullshit?

Right. Keep digging Johnny.

Our bike/peds trail system has a speed limit of 15 mph. Often bikers will exceed it but are generally ‘thoughtful’ about doing so. Using it during times when the trail isn’t busy and slowing down and giving room when passing by slower trail users.

However lately we’ve seen a huge surge in ebikes. Most of the riders are are fine. However there are a number with modded Class 2 ebikes - they go flying by at 25 mph using the throttle without pedaling. Basically these are electric motorcycles that have an option to pedal. Often times it’s right down the middle of the busy trail without calling out or giving others room. I wish the police here would set up speed traps and come down hard on these people before someone gets hurt.

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Matt

Here in Denmark, with a great cycling culture, it is also required to keep as far to the right as possible. It works really well in most cases. I agree with kay9cop.

I don't doubt it, but I think we're talking two different expectations here.

Question to you both as posters, post a photo of where on the road you expect a rider to be on the following situations:
1. straight road, 6" wide shoulder 3" wide white line, clear visibility
2. heavy curve to the right
3. Same as #1 but broad shoulder, clear of debris, wider enough for a rider to fully fit

My answer to #1 is the tire being 1/2 of your body width from your furthest right body part to the center of the tire. So if you're on 420mm bars that's 210mm plus a few mm for your elbows.

My answer to #2 depends on the curvature of the road. But more than #1. Answer to #3 is on the broad shoulder.

I agree also. Not sure why everyone is going so upset over something which is common sense. I don’t think kay9cop means you need to ride in the gutter, just ride as far to the right as you can.

 It’s bad riding like that which makes other users dislike bicyclists.

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The human psyche is a weird thing. I hear all the time, "ride correctly" so your not a bad example so the next cyclist doesn't have a bad interaction from a "pissed" off motorist. Yet, I never hear that logic applied to any other interaction. You never hear how motorists need to drive better so the next person isn't harmed.


It's just odd that there seems to be this "extra" level of politeness that we all have to ride with. I drive through neighborhoods and "california roll" it when I see it's clear of traffic. Just like I do as a cyclist. And I'll take a ticket in the event some cop sees me do that. But again when no traffic is around, I'm not going to come to a "complete" stop whether in a car OR a bike. I see thousands of motorists behave in this same manner. ETA: But I'm not going to run a red light when traffic is all around or blow through a stop sign just because I"m on the bike. I take an assessment of the area, if it's clear, I'm not going to "stop". Again I'm not going to ride like a asshole in traffic, but if an intersection is clear of traffic, I'm going to roll the stop sign.

I get it though, one action is going to "piss" off a driver so now they have rage mode inacted towards the next cyclist. I just kinda shoulder shrug cus this is very rarely inacted towards motorist v motorist. Of course I hear all the time of road rage incidents etc, but there seems to be this level of expectation added only to bicylist or else they are now "endangering" the next guy.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

1. On road with traffic, edge of outside handlebar on the white line. This gives me about 12" to 18" of leeway. (I think this is roughly what you are saying?)

2. Assuming you mean curb? 18" to 24" since often need to avoid grates in this scenario as well.
3. On the line. I will pull onto the shoulder if traffic coming in opposite lane. Shoulders are usually where the glass/gravel/etc that causes a flat are collected.

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They say that, but that's not what driver's expectations are. They expect the gutter.

I asked for clarification because I think you and FSENG and I are on the same page. I sound like I'm railing against logic here, but I'm railing against sending people into the gutter. Not railing against telling someone to go right. Don't be a D and take up the whole lane, keep right. Sure.

But the poster said "closest to the right edge of the roadway". Which is the gutter.

Hence me asking for a picture of a road with a dot or photo of a rider with a "correct vs incorrect".

I ride in Quebec and Ontario (two Canadian provinces), an hour between the two locations

If I did the "ride to the left and make people slow down to pass" in Ontario, I'd probably get away with it.

In Quebec, I'm begging for an altercation with a driver. I'm begging to get buzzed. Hi probability it will be in a pickup truck :-)

The Garmin Varia has been the greatest thing since sliced bread. It allows me to ride a little more to the left until a car comes and then move over and be cautious until he passes.

It doesn't really matter what the law says. I'd rather be wrong than dead.

Im not sure how it works in the States, but in DK there is not “right of way”. If it can happen in a safe way, it is permitted to overtake to the left. All vehicles, bikes, cars, trucks and so om, must keep to the right. And of course not in the gutter. If a shoulder exist, and it is without to much debris and /or potholes, is choose to and are permitted to drive there. Luckily most major roads in my area have designated bike lanes.

This is exactly what I do with the Varia. And is my exact opinion on the issue.

I'll let a lawyer argue a ticket, as that means I'm alive.

I think we need to make a distinction between riding as far to the right as possible and as far to the right as practicable. For example, on one of the local county roads, the road is starting to break up on the right side, for about 2 feet. While it may be possible to ride in that broken pavement, it is more practicable to ride to the left of the crumbly asphalt. I think the local law uses the term practicable. I think Forster's book on "Effective Cycling" covers this.

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salmon - not because I'm a fish

Follow up article in the local newspaper says the cycling advocacy group Cycling Toronto met with the Mayor, the police, and park users to come up with a joint solution.

Seems that things have simmered down since the inflammatory article.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/08/10/john-tory-meets-with-cycle-toronto-over-high-park-feud.html

It seems like everyone here is agreeing that as far right as practical is what should be done, as there will be obstacles to avoid and you need a little space between you and the edge of the road. However some motorists/police who don’t ride may expect cyclists to be an inch away from the gutter. As we saw in Casey Neistat’s video ‘bike lanes’ unfortunately cyclists are given unrealistic expectations. Though at the same time it’s not uncommon for Cyclists to be jerks, so you can see why some will have a negative view.