"Right on Parkito, the country is far to important to leave in the hands of the rednecks that shoot us the birds while we ride! "
Craig

Craig, uh, can you help me out a little bit here? I'm not sure if'n yer fer me or agi'n me (i.e. sarasticly speak'n). Late night last night getting back from a funeral viewing and the burial this morning, everything is a little fuzzy/hairy around the edge of the eyeballs today.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

You still are not answering what "FEDERAL" has to do with the electoral college being such a great idea.

You're right, I'm not. I'm telling you that the Electoral College is part of our Federalist scheme, and I'm telling you to find out for yourself what Federalism is and why it's important. This is basic (very basic) civics, I really don't think I'm asking too much of you, as a fellow citizen, to know it.

No flame intended, BTW.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Sure, I will explain, but you are not going to like it.

"Why War in Iraq Makes Cholla Safer"

By Mojozenmaster

It wasn’t so much to invade a country as to have a military presence in the Middle East region. Iraq happened to be the biggest threat in the region. They also had the most powerful military. After years of inviting terrorism upon ourselves through the innaction of all adminstrations over the last 20 years and not finishing the job in Iraq (Bush 1), the terrorists got bold and pulled off 9/11. Note that the word “terrorist” does not describe any middle eastern nationality, but it typically does=arab male; someone who lives in the middle east. Al Queada recruited from all countries in the Middle East. Nationality does not matter to them as long as the recruits/fighters are gung ho to kill Americans. Nationality should not matter to us as long as we are gung ho to kill terrorists. Remember, Al Queada is eveywhere, so confining the fight to Afghanistan would only have limited effectiveness. Or, do some people actually think that they stayed in Afghanistan instead of spreading out? Anyway, we have to go after them wherever they are. We needed a reason to be there and WMD was (and IMHO) still is (part of) a good reason to go. So we kicked the sh** out of the Iraqi military…….the military that was the envy of the arab world very quickly. That A$$whuppin’ was also a huge humilation to the rest of the Arab world. They were in shock. This was a good thing. Terrorists and their supporters falsely believed that America had lost the will and ability to fight. Look what happened!!

You also need to remember, that throughout history, Arabs have never been good warriors. Lot’s of chanting and poetic notions about sending infidels to meet allah, blah, blah, blah…..But they could never really assemble an army, put it on a battlefield and fight to the death. This is the reason the Iran/Iraq war went on for 10 years; bad warriors practicing bad tactics. And nothing was ever solved. Anyway, not being able to fight in the traditional sense means resorting to the sneaky, despicable tactics of terrorism. When you want to wage an effective war against terrorists you have to go where they are…..that’s not to say that we should wait for an invitation from a moderate arab country, it means an invasion/by any means necessary. So we can set up shop in Iraq and start hunting down the bad guys.

When you look at a map of the middle east, you can easily see why it is a very geographically desirable place to have a strong US military presence. Forget about what nation the bad guys are calling home……put that right out of your mind. Instead, look at the entire region as their home. Makes sense now doesn’t it? Now that you see from the right perspective, think about all the places we can go by sea, land or air. It’s a perfect scenario to hunt and kill terrorists, wherever they are. Killing terrorists over there before they can get here makes you safe. It makes you safe because there is one less terrorist walking around. Yes, there will be talk of “jihad” and “holy wars” but that’s just a bunch of arab dudes talking shit……I do recall something about a Jihad in Afghanistan not so long ago…..was that cancelled due to lack of interest or lack of balls? ……..Maybe it had to do with the awesome US military machine and all the brave American warriors that make it run!?

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Mojo, I really hate to be rude, but that's just about all wrong. Just for starters. . .

"You also need to remember, that throughout history, Arabs have never been good warriors. Lot’s of chanting and poetic notions about sending infidels to meet allah, blah, blah, blah…..But they could never really assemble an army, put it on a battlefield and fight to the death." Are you completely unaware that Arabs just about overran all of Europe, historically?

That was a nice long post, unfortunately filled to overflowing with inaccuracies and factual errors.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Hmmm.....do you really think Bush would get impeached by a republican lead house of rep?

He clearly should be impeached and brought in front of the senate. We have the impeachment process there for checks and balances -- right now there is no balance, thus it needs to be checked.

-Dan

"If you say that the country is populated with mostly uneducated people, then, by default, states and cities are populated by mostly uneducated people. Thus... if the electoral college is such the greatest thing since sliced bread, why is it not in use for state and municipal elections? "


Bold underline emphasis is mine.

A) Out of the mouth of babes, you said it. You won't even look up federalism (we let you off once for not knowing the concept), but you haven't looked it up after being told three times. Even worse, was it Francois telling you to look it up and he is French?! (I may be wrong that it is Francois, if so my apologies.) Don't continue the argument until you know what it is you are arguing about. So, surprise!, yes most of this country is surprisingly uneducated. Most Europeans I know are always amazed at the lack of political, historical and international knowledge that the typical US citizen possesses. It is compounded by their acute awareness that the US is the only real superpower in the world and it is populated by dopes. To be fair, I sometimes think they expect more from us because we must be smarter on average to be a superpower. Hmm, the power of luck perhaps. Anyway, I now count you as one of the masses of uneductated. Congratulations. (eeuuww, I sound like Kerouac, I need to tone it down. My humble apology.)

B) When I was a youth, the standard U.S. newspaper wrote their articles for the average tenth grade educated person. I understand from friends in education that the newspapers now write for a less educated target. Progress.

C) I really hate writing this because I hate seeing it when other people write back in other threads, but, if you actually go back and read my first comment regarding the electoral college, I did not make any statement regarding my personal preference for or against the electoral college. I simply said that there were good reasons for it at the time the original constitution was written. TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR FOR YOU, I STILL HAVE NOT EXPRESSED A PERSONAL OPINION FOR OR AGAINST THE EC, let alone support the idea that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

D) I presented my hypothesis in the last response to you why it wasn't widespread in lower level elections, did you miss it? I also told you in the first response to stop making unsubstantiated inflammatory statements ("greatest thing since sliced bread" where the hell did that come from?) I also told you to start doing your own homework. Guess what! Three strikes and your out. Please refrain from asking me anymore questions (even if you have good intentions) and go sit in the back of the classroom with klass klown kerouac.

You are the weakest link, Good bye!

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

"Are you completely unaware that Arabs just about overran all of Europe, historically?'

I'll add that historically, Americans just about annihilated Iraqi's.

My bad, it was Vitus responding to Fasttwitch regarding federalism.

Now then, who's next? :-)

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

I'll add that historically, Americans just about annihilated Iraqi's. Yep, which goes a long way to refute another point in Mojo's post that Iraq had the "most powerful military" in the region, or was the biggest threat.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You may want to read these articles which in short say that there is evidence in Iraq that there was WMD's in Iraq and that they were moved to Syria. After all it isn't like he didn't know we were coming? I have always wondered why the found chemical suites left behind by the Iraqi Army.

If they did find a crate marked WMD, would you believe it or just say they were put there to save face for the US? What if they found them in Syria?

http://www.insightmag.com/...n.Found-670120.shtml

http://www.insightmag.com/...l&storyid=670123

How does it refute his point?

You can count on 1/2 of one hand the number of countries that could stand up against the United States military...Some could give us a run for our money...but that's about it...

How does it refute his point? Are you serious? What condition was the Iraqi army left in after the first Gulf War? Was it, in fact, the most powerful in the region? Or was it in shambles?

And you're right that not many countries could stand up to the US militarily- that makes it a little hard to argue that the weaker nations are a real threat to the US, doesn't it?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You must be either a member of the outdated electoral college or a politician because you don't answer the question and just go on yada-yada-yada about your knowledge on federalism. Well, we see you will not answer and to avoid answering you command that the person asking you refrains from writing you.

You have your choice not to read and I have my choice to write. I'll make any statements that I feel are appropriate on the subject, such as the electoral college being outdated.

Remember, the "founding fathers" lived in a different era... the country evolves and so should the electoral college.

Much the same, the catholics should evolve and accept contraception because only 0.00001% of catholics remain sex-less until marriage.

Evolution... a beautiful thing. Darwin did some good.

You're looking at this from the wrong angle.

Gone are the days where tanks, bullets, howitzers, subs, planes, and sheer numbers of soldiers are used to fight and win wars. We live in a world where a single nuclear missile, a small amount of virus, or a fuel laden plane can kill from thousands to hundreds of thousands of people. We live in a world and have always lived in a world where there are dictators and evil people like Stalin, Hitler, and Hussein. They don't really care about human life and will find any way to hurt those who they hate. If they can't do it by the old methods of large military might, they'll do it by sending a plane into a building or spreading a virus through an air conditioning vent. Those don't require much military might but can sure kill as many people as 100,000 soldiers can...

No it doesn't. Weaker doesn't proclude you from being a threat. If I am 6 foot 6 240 and confronting someone who is 5 foot 8 145 it doesn't mean that person is not a threat to me. They could very well be a threat if given the right tools or weapons. A country can be a threat to the US without having the capability of floating an aircraft carrier off the coast of NY or being able to reach out and touch us with a missle.

I would consider Cuba a weaker nation, would you? What if, for conversation sake, we determined they had a nuke or missles with WMD's pointed at the southern US? I would classify that as "real threat"

Well, how 'bout that. An fine American citizen who just flat refuses to educate himself about his own government. Ignorant, and insisting on his right to stay that way. Grand.

And for good measure, he throws in a shot at Catholics about birth control.

Isn't that special!

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I would consider Cuba a weaker nation, would you? What if, for conversation sake, we determined they had a nuke or missles with WMD's pointed at the southern US? I would classify that as "real threat"

I would say that if Cuba had nuclear weapons, it wouldn't be so weak.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Gone are the days where tanks, bullets, howitzers, subs, planes, and sheer numbers of soldiers are used to fight and win wars. Really? Then why do we have so many tanks, bullets, howitzers, etc?

If they can't do it by the old methods of large military might, they'll do it by sending a plane into a building or spreading a virus through an air conditioning vent. Yeah, except Hussein didn't do any of those things to us. I know, it's one of those fine distinctions in life, but still. . .

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Ok, fair enough. Take the nuke part out and we will say that it just had SCUD type missles like ol' SH had pointed at FLA, TX and LA?

"You must be either a member of the outdated electoral college or a politician because you don't answer the question and just go on yada-yada-yada about your knowledge on federalism. Well, we see you will not answer and to avoid answering you command that the person asking you refrains from writing you. "

Dude, first lighten up. Second, get some coffee or something, Vitus was bonking you on the head about federalism. not me. I just gave you a shot because you didn't do the basic homework to continue the argument. Third, I did answer you on the electoral college, twice. I even went out of my way to give you a little background on the electoral college. Sorry? What was that? "Thank you." Yes, yes, you're welcome. Such nice manners. Lastly sadly I command very few if anyone, but it is always nice to dream. I understand Napolean was my height. Aah, what could have been......

Now, calling me a politician, that is below the belt.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

Just to clarify, Hussein didn't have any SCUDs pointed at US targets.

Hypothetically, if Cuba had SCUDs pointed as us, I'd say let them. They just damn well better not shoot them at us.

Back to real life. Iraq posed no real threat to the US. Hussein was a bad guy who hated us, but completely lacked the ability to do anything about it. That country was as isolated and contained as a country can be- containment was working out in a textbook fashion.

I really do not think it's a good idea to justify an invasion of any country by arguing,basically, that they don't like America. I think the bar needs to be set a lot higher than that.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

BONK BONK, on the head, BONK BONK!

From one of the best Star Trek episodes! :)

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Well said!

I suspect we have several missles "pointed" at other countries....should they attack us as a result?

-Dan

Careful Vitus, you're dating yourself (as well as me).

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)