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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
Ex-cyclist wrote:
Kind of sort of:

Main Frame dimensions can be no less than 25mmcross section and 80mm depth.
Fork and stays can be no less than 10mm and 80mm depth.

This is what happens when this is taken advantage of.


I actually know the guy who designed it but he was full of “no comment†when I asked him some specifics yesterday, which is fair enough. Apparently it’ll be used by one endurance bunch rider at the Minsk World Cup (happening now), and then further rollout likely in Glasgow next week. Some other federations have voiced concerns about what would happen in the event of a crash and those seat stays, I’m sure they’re plenty stiff though.

I'm sure the concerns are more along the lines of, well we're screwed, let's complain.

It looks like Clancy was the cover model, but I couldn't tell exactly who was riding it in Minsk the pictures I was sent.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:

And also maybe the seat stay (quite large) stabilize the air flow behind the legs, creating a virtual aero shape "leg + seat stay"


I very much suspect they are are looking at leg aero drag rather than interaction and interference effects with wheels. They wouldn't need to go that far out for the later.


Last edited by: rruff: Oct 31, 19 11:03
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ethan Hayter is using it as it was too big for Ed Clancy to race on. I spoke to three of the Hope engineers today who’ve been working on it and had a look at the inside of the seat stays - which are absolutely paper thin!

Lotus are doing the front end (forks and bars). About 6 months from them getting the CAD design to this point of a rideable bike - they have 7 sizes which require some modular tooling, but three different sizes of seat stay which just appear further up/down the bike depending on the size. They’ve just done the XL one so far. Hope are also making the wheels (trispoke and disc).

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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
Ethan Hayter is using it as it was too big for Ed Clancy to race on. I spoke to three of the Hope engineers today who’ve been working on it and had a look at the inside of the seat stays - which are absolutely paper thin!

Lotus are doing the front end (forks and bars). About 6 months from them getting the CAD design to this point of a rideable bike - they have 7 sizes which require some modular tooling, but three different sizes of seat stay which just appear further up/down the bike depending on the size. They’ve just done the XL one so far. Hope are also making the wheels (trispoke and disc).

It's pretty amazing what being able to print in Ti (and having the UK lottery and near infinite funds) does to speed up things. I'm pretty sure Bastion is doing all the front end stuff, at least for the sprinters, on AIS's Argons.

I was wondering about the wheels as they looked like Mavics at first blush.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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Curious that they didn't use a left side drivetrain.
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bet it's a fake.
They've done this before.

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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
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sub-3-dad wrote:
I'll bet it's a fake.
They've done this before.

I've seen this theory being pushed around a bit. Yes it is possible, BUT anything to be used in the Olympics has to be approved, ratified and used in a UCI World Cup race before. So maybe it's fake and they just go back to their Cervelo T5's, or maybe they have a new final design hit right on the last WC. At any rate we'll have seen what they're riding before the Olympics.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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It is interesting there wasn't a great rush to copy the 2012 wide forks. Just that Avanti that I can think of that has followed that route.
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
Great Britain....for a tiny island on the edge of the Atlantic we sure make some neat stuff.

In Lancashire to be more precise ðŸ˜
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, in order to be used during the Olympics, and also to be used in any UCI event such as World Cups (bike events during the Olympics are held under UCI rules), they need to be UCI approved.

You know, this little colored logo mentioning the brand, the name of the frame, the sport (RD, TT, TR, ...), frame or fork or..., and UCI approval number. Such as CERV P3 TT Frame ...

This is the last list published list (2019 october 30) :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_128

no HOPE model, neither LOTUS model approved in this list. Maybe in the next one published ?

The approval procedure is guaranteed by UCI to be less than 3 months (a maximum of 1 month for plan/design analysis, 2 month for prototype analysis).

So, we will know soon if this way of deviating the seat stays to stabilize leg airflow turbulence is appreciated by UCI :-)

Funny things from the list :

3T Strada is approved, not Exploro
Cervelo P5 disk is not known as P5 but F136
Cervelo P3 disk not yet approved
Felt last TT approved bike is the DA in 2011
Felt TA-FRD is only approved in size 55cm !
Look T20 just approved.... and I can't find a single picture of this one.... surprise for Tokyo ???
No Scott Plasma 5, neither Trek TT disk...
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:

Yes, in order to be used during the Olympics, and also to be used in any UCI event such as World Cups (bike events during the Olympics are held under UCI rules), they need to be UCI approved.

You know, this little colored logo mentioning the brand, the name of the frame, the sport (RD, TT, TR, ...), frame or fork or..., and UCI approval number. Such as CERV P3 TT Frame ...

This is the last list published list (2019 october 30) :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_128

no HOPE model, neither LOTUS model approved in this list. Maybe in the next one published ?

The approval procedure is guaranteed by UCI to be less than 3 months (a maximum of 1 month for plan/design analysis, 2 month for prototype analysis).

So, we will know soon if this way of deviating the seat stays to stabilize leg airflow turbulence is appreciated by UCI :-)

Funny things from the list :

3T Strada is approved, not Exploro
Cervelo P5 disk is not known as P5 but F136
Cervelo P3 disk not yet approved
Felt last TT approved bike is the DA in 2011
Felt TA-FRD is only approved in size 55cm !
Look T20 just approved.... and I can't find a single picture of this one.... surprise for Tokyo ???
No Scott Plasma 5, neither Trek TT disk...

Surprised it's not on the list as it is pictured with a sticker. Also, to be used in the WC, it has to be an approved bike. So maybe it shows up on the next one like you said.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, pictured with a UCI sticker, but not on the 31 october 2019 list....

... either there is a delay to be on the official list (pre-approval ?) either it is registered under another brand name ?

I can't see what is written on the sticker... pictures too blurry
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
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Not a fake. Felt's new bike should also be seen this weekend under Jen Valente, but it won't be nearly the attention grabber as this one.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah saw that. Looks pretty normal. May be some fancy stuff going on with it, but overall looks like a bog standard bunch bike



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Not a fake. Felt's new bike should also be seen this weekend under Jen Valente, but it won't be nearly the attention grabber as this one.


Anyone have pics?
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
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A source from inside Minsk basically said it was the TA with mass start bars.

Looks like it has picked up at least a Gold and Bronze thus far.
Last edited by: Ohio_Roadie: Nov 2, 19 10:12
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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There is no Felt track bike recently validated by UCI, from 31st october list. The last was TA FRD in 2016 (only size 55).

Either it is not really a new model frame / fork, just some minor adaptations, either it is the same case as Hope, just validated but not yet published ?
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:
There is no Felt track bike recently validated by UCI, from 31st october list. The last was TA FRD in 2016 (only size 55).

Either it is not really a new model frame / fork, just some minor adaptations, either it is the same case as Hope, just validated but not yet published ?

I think you are putting too much faith in the UCI to keep their list on their website up to date. The UCI is not always the best run organization.
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [bluntandy] [ In reply to ]
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bluntandy wrote:
From Chris Boardman's book the original wide fork was the result of CAD. This looks like they've taken that idea further.
For the track guys stiffness is a top priority. The cervelo bikes has some issues with the torque some people can produce.
The original Katsanis designed frames lasted 10 years!! Who here has a carbon bike that lasted 10 years? Under those loads those frame were special

I don't ride track but have the same 2010 Cervelo P3 I ride as both my training & racing bike. I am about due for a new bike though.
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Ohio_Roadie wrote:
A source from inside Minsk basically said it was the TA with mass start bars.

Looks like it has picked up at least a Gold and Bronze thus far.

The new bike is different than the TA. Looks like she just rode it in the points race. Was back on the old TA for the rest of the races. Just has to be ridden once, so they may be trying to keep it out of the spotlight for now.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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New list of UCI approved frames / forks, from 18 november 2019 :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_132

Hope / Lotus : not yet included

Felt : no new track back referenced, latest being the TA-FRD from 2016, in only one size

Look T20 : finally found a picture in Keirin Magazine : https://z-m-www.facebook.com/...493223889069/?type=3
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:


New list of UCI approved frames / forks, from 18 november 2019 :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_132

Hope / Lotus : not yet included

Felt : no new track back referenced, latest being the TA-FRD from 2016, in only one size

Look T20 : finally found a picture in Keirin Magazine : https://z-m-www.facebook.com/...493223889069/?type=3

Interesting. Looks like the T5GB's are still in there despite not being able to actually buy one.



Heath Dotson
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Pyrenean Wolf wrote:


New list of UCI approved frames / forks, from 18 november 2019 :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_132

Hope / Lotus : not yet included

Felt : no new track back referenced, latest being the TA-FRD from 2016, in only one size

Look T20 : finally found a picture in Keirin Magazine : https://z-m-www.facebook.com/...493223889069/?type=3


Interesting. Looks like the T5GB's are still in there despite not being able to actually buy one.

In my lust for the Crux helmet I discovered the "unavailable" issue was remedied, as most of life's problems are, with "enough" money.
Unfortunately, "enough" and "new car" were a bit too similar.

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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Noticed the other day that Superteam is claiming UCI approval for some wheels. Looks true via their lists. I never knew. I knew Yoeleo went for it and some others.
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Re: How long before the UCI ban this then ? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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New list from December 2 2019 :

https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_150

Hope / Lotus still not there...
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