Oof. I hope they're fast!

Weird thing is that despite the wild fork and stays, the main triangle looks like a 90's tri bike.

I guess the concept is that the seat stays are shielded by the rider's legs?

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The 3:1 ratio rule was dropped a couple of years ago

Bizarre. I love it. Excuse my ignorance but do UCI rules apply to the olympics? I would assume they aren't technically a governing body of the actual events.

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yes, they are a governing body of the events. UCI falls under the IOC umbrella...

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I'd say it's primarily to avoid unwanted interference between tube wakes at the junction between the seatstays and seatpost. They may also act to reduce wake losses due to the legs by helping control the leg wake.

I assume its already UCI approved but I don't see how the seat stay junction meets the rules surrounding the tube 'joints' rule 1.3.020. The rule does have a vague exception for track and TT bikes but I don't think the seat tube/seat stay junction meets the current requirements.

From Chris Boardman's book the original wide fork was the result of CAD. This looks like they've taken that idea further.
For the track guys stiffness is a top priority. The cervelo bikes has some issues with the torque some people can produce.
The original Katsanis designed frames lasted 10 years!! Who here has a carbon bike that lasted 10 years? Under those loads those frame were special

Yeah. It's surprisingly like my old Planet X Stealth in the front triangle

In the clarification guide on page 17 it sets out the seat stay junction further, and that area isn't subject to minimum/maximum dimension constraints either (p19). Basically if you make the angle of the seat stays steep enough (which is done here by mounting them very high) then you can get nearly 8cm across the seat tube box in a horizontal plane by having the extreme tip of the seat stay box just touching the back of the seat tube box.

I've seen a "beam" bike which conforms to UCI regulations which was extremely cleverly done - it does have to go through the approval process though so too radical and it'll just get made illegal the year following/the next opportunity for a large scale rule change.

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Kind of sort of:

Main Frame dimensions can be no less than 25mmcross section and 80mm depth.
Fork and stays can be no less than 10mm and 80mm depth.

This is what happens when this is taken advantage of.

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Heath Dotson
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Also eliminates interaction between wheels and stays/forks.

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Heath Dotson
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Do you mean CFD?


I have hard that. Though I've also heard some elite endurance guys talk about frames that are too stiff. And match sprinters are in a whole other world in terms of torque. Hard to make everyone happy.

Track is also much less concerned with performance at higher yaw angles, so putting the forks/legs/seatstays inline is probably a better bet than out on the road.

Also, trispokes and discs (popular on the track) have bigger interference issues than wire spokes. In tunnel testing you can actually see the disruption every time a trispoke blade passes through the fork.

Kudos to them for innovating.

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Behind the Scenes (ish) video. Some other angles. Looks like it's still in prototype form and will be cleaned up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xOsO57zis

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If this is true (as Orbea and Dimond also claim), then how come a brand like cervelo is still using very tight crowns on the PX and P5d?

I actually know the guy who designed it but he was full of “no comment” when I asked him some specifics yesterday, which is fair enough. Apparently it’ll be used by one endurance bunch rider at the Minsk World Cup (happening now), and then further rollout likely in Glasgow next week. Some other federations have voiced concerns about what would happen in the event of a crash and those seat stays, I’m sure they’re plenty stiff though.

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And also maybe the seat stay (quite large) stabilize the air flow behind the legs, creating a virtual aero shape "leg + seat stay"

Brilliantly ugly.

Probably working on the track only, as no wind yaw, indeed.

We learned this more than 20 years ago at Zipp and even developed a 120mm fork crown fork with vertical blades that worked well with trispokes.. it sits in the lobby of Zipp to this day and was the inspiration for the Dimond front end (done by a Zipp employee) and also shared with GB cycling after a discussion I had with Boardman at Eurobike following the release of the gen 1 super bike they did that had the super tight fork blades and stays.. those bikes had been done entirely in CFD followed by a little wind tunnel validation, but had missed some of the wattage to spin issues related to the super tight blades/stays. Notably the next gen GB bikes had much wider fork blades and worked much better with certain wheels.

This one, however, is clearly next level. I've asked for some details that I can share from those involved and haven't heard specifics yet, but my assumption would be that they figured that they might as well push this stuff out to the centerline of the legs if they were going to be 50-60mm away from the wheel surface anyway.

Mathematically I'm quite interested as this is a pretty significant increase in A over most any other option, so the corresponding reduction in Cd must be quite large to compensate. Also interested in the continuation of right hand drive. There has been a lot of debate about the left hand drive concept and the data collection and means to get to those numbers. I know that this group had way more than enough money and capability to thoroughly investigate that as an option, so interesting to see that not being a feature here.

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Could it be that it is a reduction in rider-on-bike A?

I’ve always thought this was a smart approach. My Speed Concept seems to be relatively wheel/tire agnostic whereas a friend who’s taken his P5 to the tunnel a number of times and he swears there are significant differences. E.g. a Zipp 808 with a 20mm SS is 5 watts faster than a HED Jet 9+ with the same tire and, similarly, the 808/SS is 5 watts faster than an 808/GP4000 (and this is before CRR).

Great Britain....for a tiny island on the edge of the Atlantic we sure make some neat stuff.

I'm sure the concerns are more along the lines of, well we're screwed, let's complain.

It looks like Clancy was the cover model, but I couldn't tell exactly who was riding it in Minsk the pictures I was sent.

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I very much suspect they are are looking at leg aero drag rather than interaction and interference effects with wheels. They wouldn't need to go that far out for the later.

Ethan Hayter is using it as it was too big for Ed Clancy to race on. I spoke to three of the Hope engineers today who’ve been working on it and had a look at the inside of the seat stays - which are absolutely paper thin!

Lotus are doing the front end (forks and bars). About 6 months from them getting the CAD design to this point of a rideable bike - they have 7 sizes which require some modular tooling, but three different sizes of seat stay which just appear further up/down the bike depending on the size. They’ve just done the XL one so far. Hope are also making the wheels (trispoke and disc).

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It's pretty amazing what being able to print in Ti (and having the UK lottery and near infinite funds) does to speed up things. I'm pretty sure Bastion is doing all the front end stuff, at least for the sprinters, on AIS's Argons.

I was wondering about the wheels as they looked like Mavics at first blush.

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Curious that they didn't use a left side drivetrain.

I'll bet it's a fake.
They've done this before.

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I've seen this theory being pushed around a bit. Yes it is possible, BUT anything to be used in the Olympics has to be approved, ratified and used in a UCI World Cup race before. So maybe it's fake and they just go back to their Cervelo T5's, or maybe they have a new final design hit right on the last WC. At any rate we'll have seen what they're riding before the Olympics.

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Heath Dotson
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It is interesting there wasn't a great rush to copy the 2012 wide forks. Just that Avanti that I can think of that has followed that route.

In Lancashire to be more precise 😁

 
Yes, in order to be used during the Olympics, and also to be used in any UCI event such as World Cups (bike events during the Olympics are held under UCI rules), they need to be UCI approved.

You know, this little colored logo mentioning the brand, the name of the frame, the sport (RD, TT, TR, ...), frame or fork or..., and UCI approval number. Such as CERV P3 TT Frame ...

This is the last list published list (2019 october 30) :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_128

no HOPE model, neither LOTUS model approved in this list. Maybe in the next one published ?

The approval procedure is guaranteed by UCI to be less than 3 months (a maximum of 1 month for plan/design analysis, 2 month for prototype analysis).

So, we will know soon if this way of deviating the seat stays to stabilize leg airflow turbulence is appreciated by UCI :-)

Funny things from the list :

3T Strada is approved, not Exploro
Cervelo P5 disk is not known as P5 but F136
Cervelo P3 disk not yet approved
Felt last TT approved bike is the DA in 2011
Felt TA-FRD is only approved in size 55cm !
Look T20 just approved.... and I can't find a single picture of this one.... surprise for Tokyo ???
No Scott Plasma 5, neither Trek TT disk...

Surprised it's not on the list as it is pictured with a sticker. Also, to be used in the WC, it has to be an approved bike. So maybe it shows up on the next one like you said.

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Yes, pictured with a UCI sticker, but not on the 31 october 2019 list....

... either there is a delay to be on the official list (pre-approval ?) either it is registered under another brand name ?

I can't see what is written on the sticker... pictures too blurry

Not a fake. Felt's new bike should also be seen this weekend under Jen Valente, but it won't be nearly the attention grabber as this one.

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Yeah saw that. Looks pretty normal. May be some fancy stuff going on with it, but overall looks like a bog standard bunch bike

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Anyone have pics?

A source from inside Minsk basically said it was the TA with mass start bars.

Looks like it has picked up at least a Gold and Bronze thus far.

There is no Felt track bike recently validated by UCI, from 31st october list. The last was TA FRD in 2016 (only size 55).

Either it is not really a new model frame / fork, just some minor adaptations, either it is the same case as Hope, just validated but not yet published ?

I think you are putting too much faith in the UCI to keep their list on their website up to date. The UCI is not always the best run organization.

I don't ride track but have the same 2010 Cervelo P3 I ride as both my training & racing bike. I am about due for a new bike though.

The new bike is different than the TA. Looks like she just rode it in the points race. Was back on the old TA for the rest of the races. Just has to be ridden once, so they may be trying to keep it out of the spotlight for now.

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New list of UCI approved frames / forks, from 18 november 2019 :
https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_132

Hope / Lotus : not yet included

Felt : no new track back referenced, latest being the TA-FRD from 2016, in only one size

Look T20 : finally found a picture in Keirin Magazine : https://z-m-www.facebook.com/...493223889069/?type=3

Interesting. Looks like the T5GB's are still in there despite not being able to actually buy one.

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Noticed the other day that Superteam is claiming UCI approval for some wheels. Looks true via their lists. I never knew. I knew Yoeleo went for it and some others.

 
New list from December 2 2019 :

https://www.uci.org/...?sfvrsn=ff041a35_150

Hope / Lotus still not there...

Is her name Rochelle Rochelle, perhaps?

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I'm still not overly concerned, yet. Felt and look have had new bikes along with FES. I'm not seeing those on there either.

Edit: FES has them from February, but I think there is some new stuff floating around. My understanding is that they have to be finished by 12/31 and have one sold within 90 days after. So, if it's not on the April list, it isn't happening.

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Heath Dotson
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The Look T20 (probably for Tokyo 2020) is on the UCI list for more than a month. And already used (see last post picture).

Not sold, just For Sale and delivery in 90 days.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Ah, I knew it was something like that. Is Len cooking up any mass start bars?

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