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Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [CU427]
[ In reply to ]
Post deleted by windschatten
[ In reply to ]
Last edited by:
windschatten: May 1, 18 18:25
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [windschatten]
[ In reply to ]
Sorry long day. Fixed it.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
This idea reminds me of golf:
https://www.google.com/...ules-infraction-golf
Wasnât a good look for golf so they changed it up:
https://www.google.com/...luencing-events/amp/
Probably wouldnât be a good idea for triathlon either.
https://www.google.com/...ules-infraction-golf
Wasnât a good look for golf so they changed it up:
https://www.google.com/...luencing-events/amp/
Probably wouldnât be a good idea for triathlon either.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [peace242000]
[ In reply to ]
peace242000 wrote:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1537693212 That's the example file he's using haha. It;s a from a coach of all people, great look for the sport.
I really need to improve my aero - for the hardy Northbound segment - I am 17 sec slower on 70w higher... !
____________________________________
Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
This thread is so WOKE. In the bad way.Weâre all old white guys here, youâre gonna have to tell us what that means.
Glad Iâm not the only one that doesnât understand his bro speak.
Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [CU427]
[ In reply to ]
Just make drafting legal for ironman races.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [The GMAN]
[ In reply to ]
The GMAN wrote:
Sean H wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
This thread is so WOKE. In the bad way.Weâre all old white guys here, youâre gonna have to tell us what that means.
Glad Iâm not the only one that doesnât understand his bro speak.
Maybe this will help. Maybe... "Although an incorrect tense of awake, a reference to how people should be aware in current affairs."
Thanks Urban Dictionary.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [peace242000]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [timr]
[ In reply to ]
Looks like it was deleted after he got flack on twitter about riding on Hardy road with 150 watts... he did defend himself but still removed the file. I guess I too could've finished 5th AG in M30-34 on those watts... Maybe next year!
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [cruzn80]
[ In reply to ]
I saw another strava from a front end AG, 24.9mph@179Watts.. He does not weigh 100lbs.. I would say most of the front end AG, kona folks, use a power meter. AS above, starting to see strava posts being removed.
I'm looking for a .csv of 2017 and 2018 full results, i'd like to pull out the folks who raced both years and look at the deltas. I saw an AG, near the front of my AG, that road almost 40min faster this year. Would like to generate some data if i can get all the source? Anyone?
I'm looking for a .csv of 2017 and 2018 full results, i'd like to pull out the folks who raced both years and look at the deltas. I saw an AG, near the front of my AG, that road almost 40min faster this year. Would like to generate some data if i can get all the source? Anyone?
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [timr]
[ In reply to ]
I see he has now changed his Strava to ârequest to follow.â Wonât mention his name per Dan's request. I looked through some of his rides on there the IMTX was something like 24.9 mph on 176 Watts. He did two 70.3âs last season, they were hilly bike courses and his averages for each were something like 220 and 230 Watts to go 22.5-22.9 mph.
What really cracked me up was a local shoe store replied to his post on getting a KQ with this âMust have been the sprint-distance draft legal racing that got you readyâ
Presumably in reference to a local series he did that they were involved with. But the irony of it is quite thick. Haha
Matt
What really cracked me up was a local shoe store replied to his post on getting a KQ with this âMust have been the sprint-distance draft legal racing that got you readyâ
Presumably in reference to a local series he did that they were involved with. But the irony of it is quite thick. Haha
Matt
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [timr]
[ In reply to ]
yeah, he started realizing the comments coming in weren't just his athletes congratulating him and made his whole account private
for shits and giggles we should start requesting to follow him
for shits and giggles we should start requesting to follow him
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [robgray]
[ In reply to ]
yeah, that leader board is hilarious. It's either 300~ watts or less than 200
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Savage8778]
[ In reply to ]
Savage8778 wrote:
playero wrote:
May be the people who's looking to go after these witchhunts should volunteer to be a marshal for free this way IM has. The ability to make sure nobody is drafting in any section of the bike course! Yell me that nobody has ever thought about that, you know who you are; always trying to shame people as if it was your right!
Go work for IM as a marshal & do it for free so this way we can all know how dedicated you are to making IM races draft free again.... what was that, yeah that's what I thought!
I would absolutely love to volunteer next year in Texas on the bike course, but the fact doesn't change that the road does not warrant for the moto official to be out there.
The lack of integrity of the people in the sport knew that there was no way the officials could be out there with how big of a cluster the bike course was after the pro men/women came through the first loop. It felt like the wild wild west out there.
Was the course boring - yes. But I knew it was going to be a heads down time trial this past weekend. Just didn't expect the TT to become a team TT.
Based on how you wanna roast those individuals on here makes me think that that the bike course should in deed have more officials... I mean you can't have it both ways where you want people roasted for drafting and not necessarily want to be a free Moro official during the bike because "the course doesn't warrant it"
Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Slowman wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
Slowman wrote:
those who've been racing since the early 80s have masters degrees in how those packs form. bad swimmers who're good cyclists sweep through the field picking up riders.The math of speed, time, and distance belies saying it's some kind of passable random occurrence.
If you were even just 3min slower on the swim, but caught that person on the bike......that's a mile at 20mph. Further at more speed.
Meaning, you made up at least a mile on them in distance in about an hour if you're doing 21mph. That's 1.5 ft/sec gain on the person.
So, when said slow swimmer catches slow cyclist......in one minute they'll be 100 feet away.
I'd buy the explanation if you only had a 15 foot wide path to pass on, like a greenway trail. That freaking highway they were on was so freaking wide you could land a jumbo jet on it.
Give me a freaking break (not you, just in general). You can't ignore math and logic.
i'm not telling you how it oughta be. i'm telling you how it is. slow swimmer passes cyclist who doesn't want to be passed. and speeds up. these two catch a third. by the time you're at cyclist 5, 6, 7 the fact that the fast cyclist is stronger doesn't matter, because those in back are getting the draft. and on it goes.
so, your math is great if no cyclist ever changes his velocity. but that's not human nature. you may argue that the person who gets passed is not forced to change his velocity; nor is he forced to ride in close proximity on a course with a lot of width. i'm telling you what actually happens, not what should happen.
so, you say, i'll let the pack pass me and go to the back, and dangle off the back. but other honorable people think and say the same. so, pretty soon a bunch of you are dangling off the back. more or less together.
i'm not going to get all righteous on you. i'm just saying certain things are predictable. you can blame the racer; you can blame the race organizer; or you can just not do those kinds of races and then you don't have to make the decision of whom to hate.
Yes there is a slew of races coming up where you won't have to worry about the drafting issue.
They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [CU427]
[ In reply to ]
Itâs like telling people not to draft on the highway during rush hour. I would love to have 6 car lengths to myself.... it just does not happen. If you are a statistically average biker there are hundreds of bikers on the course who will be riding within one mile per hour of you for the whole 112 miles.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [playero]
[ In reply to ]
playero wrote:
Savage8778 wrote:
playero wrote:
May be the people who's looking to go after these witchhunts should volunteer to be a marshal for free this way IM has. The ability to make sure nobody is drafting in any section of the bike course! Yell me that nobody has ever thought about that, you know who you are; always trying to shame people as if it was your right!
Go work for IM as a marshal & do it for free so this way we can all know how dedicated you are to making IM races draft free again.... what was that, yeah that's what I thought!
I would absolutely love to volunteer next year in Texas on the bike course, but the fact doesn't change that the road does not warrant for the moto official to be out there.
The lack of integrity of the people in the sport knew that there was no way the officials could be out there with how big of a cluster the bike course was after the pro men/women came through the first loop. It felt like the wild wild west out there.
Was the course boring - yes. But I knew it was going to be a heads down time trial this past weekend. Just didn't expect the TT to become a team TT.
Based on how you wanna roast those individuals on here makes me think that that the bike course should in deed have more officials... I mean you can't have it both ways where you want people roasted for drafting and not necessarily want to be a free Moro official during the bike because "the course doesn't warrant it"
Not sure what your point is here. If there was one official on the course that would be more than what there was all day.
Also not sure if you raced this weekend or not - but the drafting looked more like a zombie apocalypse than anything.
IG: NCGregory8778
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Savage8778]
[ In reply to ]
I never said I raced nor did i say that there were any officials... my point was that trying to shame people isn't right & if you feel like so.wthing shouldve been done then anybody to wants to shame these drafters that they could easily become a free bike marshal so that these draft packs don't form is you're that adamant about people NOT drafting!
I get it that it looked like a huge "gaggle fock" out there but is shaming people the next best option, this is my point! Volunteering is free, I can't imagine that a RD would be like "sorry fella I much rather not have extra moto officials on my race to allow for drafters to brake the rules"
Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
I get it that it looked like a huge "gaggle fock" out there but is shaming people the next best option, this is my point! Volunteering is free, I can't imagine that a RD would be like "sorry fella I much rather not have extra moto officials on my race to allow for drafters to brake the rules"
Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [playero]
[ In reply to ]
Might want to re-read my post.
1) I said I would love to volunteer at Texas (or any other race) to make sure that the race is fair.
2) I was simply commenting on the fact that I wasn't sure if you raced or not, and providing first hand experience of how bad the draft packs truly looked compared to other races.
3) I am not shaming anyone - where have I posted a bib number or picture of anyone? I am simply adding to the discussion that is taking place on the thread. I have plenty of bib numbers I distinctly remember from this past weekend, but in all honesty it isn't worth the time since most of these people knew exactly what they were doing.
IG: NCGregory8778
1) I said I would love to volunteer at Texas (or any other race) to make sure that the race is fair.
2) I was simply commenting on the fact that I wasn't sure if you raced or not, and providing first hand experience of how bad the draft packs truly looked compared to other races.
3) I am not shaming anyone - where have I posted a bib number or picture of anyone? I am simply adding to the discussion that is taking place on the thread. I have plenty of bib numbers I distinctly remember from this past weekend, but in all honesty it isn't worth the time since most of these people knew exactly what they were doing.
IG: NCGregory8778
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Klehner I could only handle reading your nonsense on every thread for so long. Congratulations on being the most ethical person on Slowtwich.
I raced Texas. Yes I was swallowed up by a pack (multiple times, by the same pack). It went down pretty much exactly as Dan spelled out for you, at least in my case. I'm not one to speak for others or comment on anything I didn't witness firsthand.
I'm not a FOP swimmer, got out in 1:03...292 overall. With a rolling start and minus the pros way up the road, say there were roughly 250 people in front of me. It was pretty wide open for the first loop. There were 4 of us riding legal, going back and forth for a while. Eventually a pack came and ate me up. I was riding the line of the road when one guy passed, then 2, then 3, after the first couple they don't ease in front of you, they cut right in front of your wheel. Each time I would drop back, and drop back, and drop back etc. Eventually they began to pass 2 and 3 wide at a time, sometimes passing on both sides of me. Again drop back multiple times until I am the last one off the back.
Here is where it seems confusing for you. I am now 6 bike lengths off the back of a 30-40 person group. I am in a RACE. I want to beat these people across the finish line, because that's the whole point. Once I am off the back I'm not sure what you suggest. I would like to continue competing at this point... it is a competition. 6 lengths off the back of a peloton feels pretty fricking easy, I'll tell you that. I was not happy with the situation either. I trained to hard too long for this BS. With the next person up the road 6 lengths ahead of me am I riding legally here in your opinion?? Breaking and letting 40 competitors fly by is stupid racing IMO.
This was the cycle many times over. I'm 5'10' 142lbs every little bridge or incline (and most aid stations) I would fly by these guys with very little to no increase in effort. Then I would give a little effort into the pedals and find myself off the front finally clear of these morons, usually the same couple stronger riders would gain ground on the pack here too. Same thing would happen again anywhere from 5-20 minutes later they would come roaring by. passing and cutting in one after another.
I am a quiet person, but became very vocal, lots of 4 letter words. When I would drop back to 6 lengths they obviously considered that more than enough room to squeeze in. I began to ask them as they passed me on the left "you're not going in this gap are you?" half the time it worked, and they tried to go up to the front of the train (with 100% failure rate, they never made it... clogging up the road). half the time no response and they still cut right in.
Coming into a hill while passing a bunch lined up like a team tt - I said to one guy (whose number i wish i could remember he rode a purple specialized and spoke broken English) "some people would call this cheating" as i motioned to his wheel literally 5 inches off the other guy's rear. I made it a few bikes ahead on the road when I feel a hand on my back, while I'm in aero bars mind you, the guy slaps my back, I'm now the 3rd bike wide as he comes between me and his paceline, nearly knocking me into the cones and on coming riders. Big dude staring at me, he said something I can't understand then drops back.
This nonsense happened the rest of the ride, finally got clear of the pack for a big chunk of the ride after the 2nd turnaround for a bout 16-17 miles, until they screamed by one last time before the exit from the Hardy Toll Road.
24.2 avg the first half of the bike
23.6 avg the second half of the bike
I've never raced with power and 'coincidence or I left my HR strap in Chicago' - I did. I raced sick as a dog and was more focused on packing my neti pot.
bib 1899
4:34:29 split
I tried to remember too many bib numbers I forgot them all after the marathon. All I remember is #703 rode an upstanding clean race, first class!
Dan
i'm not telling you how it oughta be. i'm telling you how it is. slow swimmer passes cyclist who doesn't want to be passed. and speeds up. these two catch a third. by the time you're at cyclist 5, 6, 7 the fact that the fast cyclist is stronger doesn't matter, because those in back are getting the draft. and on it goes.
so, your math is great if no cyclist ever changes his velocity. but that's not human nature. you may argue that the person who gets passed is not forced to change his velocity; nor is he forced to ride in close proximity on a course with a lot of width. i'm telling you what actually happens, not what should happen.
so, you say, i'll let the pack pass me and go to the back, and dangle off the back. but other honorable people think and say the same. so, pretty soon a bunch of you are dangling off the back. more or less together.
i'm not going to get all righteous on you. i'm just saying certain things are predictable. you can blame the racer; you can blame the race organizer; or you can just not do those kinds of races and then you don't have to make the decision of whom to hate.
Basically, you are saying that they are all cheating, and willfully so. Anyone who gets passed by a faster cyclist and speeds up because he/she "doesn't want to get passed" is a cheater. Period. Pretty sure I'm human, and I've never done that in a race. Human nature?
Dangling off the back is the smart way to race. If a pack gets together there, then they have made the decision to draft and cheat.
Tell me how those pro women got "swept up" by the faster male AGers. Were they just following "human nature" and found themselves drafting?
I'm with you Ken. The minute a passed rider does not drop back the required distance, they have made the choice and are guilty. The women learned quickly and use this often from my observations. Cheating is cheating....
Yes, times two.
Really surprised that Slowman has this view that "things just happen" and the athlete cannot be held accountable as it is just "human nature".
I do not think it is "human nature" to disregard fairness and safety of fellow humans, especially when there is a mutual agreement about it AKA rules.
So yes, maybe rules should be changed to accommodate dog eat dog "human nature"?
.
i would feel precisely as you feel about me, if i really said that and if i really felt that.
-
"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"
I raced Texas. Yes I was swallowed up by a pack (multiple times, by the same pack). It went down pretty much exactly as Dan spelled out for you, at least in my case. I'm not one to speak for others or comment on anything I didn't witness firsthand.
I'm not a FOP swimmer, got out in 1:03...292 overall. With a rolling start and minus the pros way up the road, say there were roughly 250 people in front of me. It was pretty wide open for the first loop. There were 4 of us riding legal, going back and forth for a while. Eventually a pack came and ate me up. I was riding the line of the road when one guy passed, then 2, then 3, after the first couple they don't ease in front of you, they cut right in front of your wheel. Each time I would drop back, and drop back, and drop back etc. Eventually they began to pass 2 and 3 wide at a time, sometimes passing on both sides of me. Again drop back multiple times until I am the last one off the back.
Here is where it seems confusing for you. I am now 6 bike lengths off the back of a 30-40 person group. I am in a RACE. I want to beat these people across the finish line, because that's the whole point. Once I am off the back I'm not sure what you suggest. I would like to continue competing at this point... it is a competition. 6 lengths off the back of a peloton feels pretty fricking easy, I'll tell you that. I was not happy with the situation either. I trained to hard too long for this BS. With the next person up the road 6 lengths ahead of me am I riding legally here in your opinion?? Breaking and letting 40 competitors fly by is stupid racing IMO.
This was the cycle many times over. I'm 5'10' 142lbs every little bridge or incline (and most aid stations) I would fly by these guys with very little to no increase in effort. Then I would give a little effort into the pedals and find myself off the front finally clear of these morons, usually the same couple stronger riders would gain ground on the pack here too. Same thing would happen again anywhere from 5-20 minutes later they would come roaring by. passing and cutting in one after another.
I am a quiet person, but became very vocal, lots of 4 letter words. When I would drop back to 6 lengths they obviously considered that more than enough room to squeeze in. I began to ask them as they passed me on the left "you're not going in this gap are you?" half the time it worked, and they tried to go up to the front of the train (with 100% failure rate, they never made it... clogging up the road). half the time no response and they still cut right in.
Coming into a hill while passing a bunch lined up like a team tt - I said to one guy (whose number i wish i could remember he rode a purple specialized and spoke broken English) "some people would call this cheating" as i motioned to his wheel literally 5 inches off the other guy's rear. I made it a few bikes ahead on the road when I feel a hand on my back, while I'm in aero bars mind you, the guy slaps my back, I'm now the 3rd bike wide as he comes between me and his paceline, nearly knocking me into the cones and on coming riders. Big dude staring at me, he said something I can't understand then drops back.
This nonsense happened the rest of the ride, finally got clear of the pack for a big chunk of the ride after the 2nd turnaround for a bout 16-17 miles, until they screamed by one last time before the exit from the Hardy Toll Road.
24.2 avg the first half of the bike
23.6 avg the second half of the bike
I've never raced with power and 'coincidence or I left my HR strap in Chicago' - I did. I raced sick as a dog and was more focused on packing my neti pot.
bib 1899
4:34:29 split
I tried to remember too many bib numbers I forgot them all after the marathon. All I remember is #703 rode an upstanding clean race, first class!
Dan
Slowman wrote:
windschatten wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
klehner wrote:
Slowman wrote:
[ i'm not telling you how it oughta be. i'm telling you how it is. slow swimmer passes cyclist who doesn't want to be passed. and speeds up. these two catch a third. by the time you're at cyclist 5, 6, 7 the fact that the fast cyclist is stronger doesn't matter, because those in back are getting the draft. and on it goes.
so, your math is great if no cyclist ever changes his velocity. but that's not human nature. you may argue that the person who gets passed is not forced to change his velocity; nor is he forced to ride in close proximity on a course with a lot of width. i'm telling you what actually happens, not what should happen.
so, you say, i'll let the pack pass me and go to the back, and dangle off the back. but other honorable people think and say the same. so, pretty soon a bunch of you are dangling off the back. more or less together.
i'm not going to get all righteous on you. i'm just saying certain things are predictable. you can blame the racer; you can blame the race organizer; or you can just not do those kinds of races and then you don't have to make the decision of whom to hate.
Basically, you are saying that they are all cheating, and willfully so. Anyone who gets passed by a faster cyclist and speeds up because he/she "doesn't want to get passed" is a cheater. Period. Pretty sure I'm human, and I've never done that in a race. Human nature?
Dangling off the back is the smart way to race. If a pack gets together there, then they have made the decision to draft and cheat.
Tell me how those pro women got "swept up" by the faster male AGers. Were they just following "human nature" and found themselves drafting?
I'm with you Ken. The minute a passed rider does not drop back the required distance, they have made the choice and are guilty. The women learned quickly and use this often from my observations. Cheating is cheating....
Yes, times two.
Really surprised that Slowman has this view that "things just happen" and the athlete cannot be held accountable as it is just "human nature".
I do not think it is "human nature" to disregard fairness and safety of fellow humans, especially when there is a mutual agreement about it AKA rules.
So yes, maybe rules should be changed to accommodate dog eat dog "human nature"?
.
i would feel precisely as you feel about me, if i really said that and if i really felt that.
-
"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [CU427]
[ In reply to ]
Unless it cost you a Kona slot, who cares what they do??? I race my race. If I finish 15th or 25th itâs all the same. Iâm racing the clock not the other people. Itâs all about me. I donât give a rats ass if others cheat. They are the ones that have to live with theirselves.
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [SlammedStance]
[ In reply to ]
SlammedStance wrote:
Unless it cost you a Kona slot.If thatâs the goal... then youâre trying to beat people. You ARE RACING THEM.
-
"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"
Re: Drafting Callout Thread: Post names, bib #'s, races, etc. [SlammedStance]
[ In reply to ]
SlammedStance wrote:
Unless it cost you a Kona slot, who cares what they do??? I race my race. If I finish 15th or 25th itâs all the same. Iâm racing the clock not the other people. Itâs all about me. I donât give a rats ass if others cheat. They are the ones that have to live with theirselves.This argument is frequently made but the reality is we all have different personalities. I don't have a single trophy, medal, award etc that I have received. My diplomas are in box and not even in the original case that it was presented to me in. However, we are all different. Some people do care about whether they 50 or 51st when there is nothing material in difference between them. It is just the reality of life and we all value different things. However from a societal perspective, cheating just breeds more cheating. Regardless of whether someone is affected or not by the cheating, cheating affects us all as whole and that can be bad.
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CU427 wrote:
Thoughts on this? Maybe we can record people we see in races with their race numbers who are blatantly drafting and post in this thread for future reference. Since it does not seem to be a priority in to hold these individuals accountable, maybe we can do that here? I am sure if this threads runs deep enough we can spot some common names, etc.
We all know there were many offenders from Texas.
Thoughts?
Stupid idea! Howâs that going to help the drafting problem?
This is going to happen when you put 2700 athletes on a pan flat 2 lap course with no moto officials on a one day race.
Make the bike courses more challenging and split the race over 2 days. Or focus the draft busting on the FOP AGâers.