I am curious why I am being "accused" of not respecting "those extra letters." G-man did you miss the part where I mentioned that both my brother-in-law and sister are MD, PhDs? I respect those letters and the work that goes into getting them as much as anyone.

The great irony of your post (to beat the Committee to the punch) is that after discussing those degrees, you then say "Dr. Andrew is the real deal and I have seen him ride," making it seem like he is the "real deal" because he is a racer and not because of his degree and research credentials. I think Dr. Andrew, and I am basing this on his own statements from the past, would rather be considered the "real deal" because what is between his ears than because of his leg muscles. Not that he can't be both a legit racer and a legit physiologist, but his rightness has nothing to do with whether I, or anyone else, would or would not be found sucking his wheel.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I think there were two attacks made on Dr. Andrew. One whether he was a ligit author of training concepts. Which a quick Lit. search will confirm. and the second whether he was a poser rider. Which doing a quick check of the USCF web site only showed one result. Another thing I noticed was that several of the newer posters like yourself (Spring 04) may not have known that Dr. A has been posting on this and other forms for cycling for at least five years that I know of.

When I read something by him I weigh it much like a Gerard, Tom D, or Slowman post as I know where they are at in their experience. You on the other hand I don't know from Jack as you don't know me. I don't think I was making any gesture to anyone except for the fact that in some circumstances it is nice to know that Dr. XYZ MD, OD,DDS or PhD has some level of authority in a medical setting. Is far as redundant I think it is the norm in the United states to formally address someone as Dr. XYX MD or PhD. Hell I sign my name and/or initials so many times a day I wrote a check to Safeway with an RN behind it last week. Talk about auto pilot.

My apologies if anyone was offended any one but Andrew is the "real deal" on and off his bike. Now if he can just stay away from "Hookers" long enough to ride straight. Some sports fans may need to do a search on the context of that last statement.

1) Dr. Andrew definitely is the "real deal" as an author, physiologist, etc. Let that be etched in stone and written as one of the hallowed commandments of Slowtwitchia... Can you put that as a credential. Dr. Andrew Coggan, PhD, RD. Some of the MD's joke that RD stands for "Real Doctor," but perhaps we can confer upon Doc Coggan the honorary degree of "Real Deal." I can make up a nice certificate in photoshop and everything for him...

2) My search, as I clarified, was for triathlon results, and I later discovered that he hasn't raced any. I also misread the UCSF page and apologized, and then knighted Dr. Andrew as a knight of endurance racing. :)

I am a new poster, but I feel like that is irrelevant. If I had been posting for five years and Dr. Andrew had been posting since Spring '04, he would still have more credibility. But it is nice to know that Dr. Andrew has been contributing to forums and sharing his knowledge for so long.

G-man, many props on the very clever Hooker joke. ;)

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Will the real Dr. AC please stand up?

I have a feeling that the RD hasn't yet posted on this thread at all.

Dr. AC may not have competed in any triathlons, but he has done the odd duathlon in the past. Also his forum postings go back longer than just a couple of years. Dr. AC was a very regular contributor to RST long ago. Now if you really want to see regular postings from Dr. AC, just wander over to the Power list, I'd say he posts there on average about 10 - 15 times a day.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

if you really want to know the title of 'dr' for medical 'doctors' is an honorary one. established in the middle ages. they aren't 'real doctors' in an academic sense.

same with the american attempt at oneupmanship which consisters of the JD degree (juris dr).

That... is the biggest load of crap I've seen on this forum to-date!

a jd doesnt mean anymore than an llb. that is a bachelor of laws.



the title of dr for medical drs is an honorary one. if you like i could find my source for that. i did an essay on medicine in early modern europe at university.

Sorry, but you are way off on that one. The use of Doctor as an academic title dates from the founding of the universities in Medieval Europe. Before these were regularly organized, any teacher who gathered about him a number of students was a doctor, dominus, or magister. During the first half of the twelfth century, the title Doctor acquired a more special significance, though it still implied personal excellence rather than official position. In the latter half of the twelfth century a group of doctors in Bologna formed a collegium and they prescribed conditions on which other persons might become members of the teaching body, and thus laid the foundation of the system of academic degrees. The doctorate was first granted in civil law, later in canon law, and, during the thirteenth century, in medicine, grammar, logic, and philosophy. In France and England it was long confined to only the faculties of law and divinity.

Regarding your claim that the Doctor of Jurisprudence is an "american attempt at oneupmanship (sic)", the foregoing clearly demonstrates that the title pre-exists America. Additionally, in many European countries, lawyers are given the title of doctor (e.g. Dr. Diesel), whereas in America they aren't.

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

hmm dunno about that. im pretty sure from when i studied medieval history (i did an essay on education and the church in that paper) and popular culture in early modern europe that by all accounts the title of dr for medical drs was merely an honorary one.



and as for lawyers:

1) Law is undergrad in the UK. Australia, NZ and the US followed this tradition (although, interestingly, you don't need a law degree to be a lawyer in the UK).

2) The US maintained the LLB during the first part of the 20th century. If you go to law firm / law school websites in the US you will see that some of the older partners/profs hold LLBs rather than JDs.

3) Folklore has it that the US changed from the undergrad LLB to a postgrad JD for diplomatic reasons (ie, ranking in diplomatic meetings was based on the weight of your degree, so the diplomats, who were, by and large lawyers, decided to upgrade).

So, any US lawyer who is shocked about undergrad law degrees need to learn their own history

dammit this post didnt come out right and i forgot what i said (edit)

at oxford and cambridge you also do a ba in law. the jd is an american invention. an llm ranks above a jd (which is a masters degree in law), as does phd, DPhil, and SJD (the american equivalent to phd i think).

This has become a lesson in semantics...

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

most modern day medicine didnt originate with the academic study of medicine in those times anyway. cultural care, traditional remedies etc seem to have influenced modern medicine to a much greater extent.

I teach at a liberal arts college in the US as an adjunt. There are two tenured professors with J.D.s that refer to themselves as doctor on campus. I am therefore obliged to refer to myself as doctor to respect the tenured J.D.s and maintain consistency within the department. While it is not common, I have come to learn that such is an acceptable practice in academia. While it was initially uncomfortable, the up side is that I can tell my wife that she is not the only doctor in the house. However, I often tell her she is not a real doctor since she can't write a prescription . . . that Ph.D thing.

On a side note, my boss at my day job has both a MD and Ph.D and usually refers to himself as Dr. So and So, Ph.D - is that normal?

You are babbling. Please take your uniformed discourse elsewhere.

Jeff writes: "On a side note, my boss at my day job has both a MD and Ph.D and usually refers to himself as Dr. So and So, Ph.D - is that normal?"

I am not Miss Manners but I believe proper etiquette is to either use Dr. in front of the name with nothing behind (as when being introduced) or the name alone with the degrees behind (as in a letterhead). To combine them, even if one has two degrees, makes one seem pretentious.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

And on that front, you would be misinformed. His Royal Endurance Knightship and Real Dealness Andrew Coggan, PhD has indeed posted. But I shant divulge any secrets...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

that's cool, it was just a guess. We are all the better for his postings here, if in fact he is among us. Not too many people as knowledgeable in exercise physiology than Dr. AC. Opinionated? sure, but aren't we all?

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Not to mention that in some countries Doctor should be abbreviated to Dr, not Dr.

A simple joke and it takes off, has a life of its own and it's up to 76 posts!!!

What? Is Andrew Coggan proud of a post that has degenerated into an ill-informed debate about proper usage of titles of courtesy for receipients of doctorates?

He is clearly very pleased with himself. Thus, although I am contributing to his delinqency with this post, I don't mind as everyone deserves some happiness.

What's it to you?

LOL... and this is premeditated, logon date is September 30th!!!

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com