Here's something to consider as well....

" it doesn’t take long for fast swimmers to overtake and swarm the back end of prior waves. This means there’s a moment, for a poor swimmer, when the entire complexion of the swim changes. There’s a new group in which this swimmer is now enmeshed, and that group is moving past and through this much slower swimmer and, perhaps, overtop that slower swimmer."

Taken from a Slowtwitch article
Limiting Deaths in Triathlon
Written by: Dan Empfield
Date: Mon Aug 13 2012

I swim 1.10-1.15 and I will be more than happy behind the 1hr - 1.05 guys...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

hahaha!

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"i’m the one guy who says don’t force the stupid people to be quiet — i want to know who the morons are." -- mark cuban

They barely know I just swam over them, it's done so seamlessly and quick and I don't go over there heads. They feel nothing when we are all in wetsuits, I don't pull on them or push on them I just glide over a part of them gracefully. I say part of them because usually they are weaving around the course unbenownce to them, but I see it clearly and I can usually swim over a part of thier legs or lower half as they weave. Or just glide over one of their shoulders. There is no aggression on my part, they just need to stay out of the main inside course line unless they swim faster. Just like in track, slower runners to the outside lanes to allow the fasters the inside lane. Same here.

very interesting.

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"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

You would not be able to catch me on the bike nor the run... dream on.

1:10 is okay, not good, just okay. Don't seed yourself in the front !!! Try sub 58...

Um... that was my point. I have never claimed to be fast. I simply want to get out of the water as quickly as possible relative to other competitors. Seeding myself higher will accomplish that. Especially for a guy like me. I came out of the water like 400th at my last race but came off the bike 195th. The sooner I get out compared to other racers means less passing and easier access to aid station.

Yeah... that and fat attorney's....

Don't drop out..... just train more. 1:20 swim (which would include some rest breaks at the "Anchored Resting Rafts"), 7:35 bike (17.0 mph pedistrian riding pace) and a 4:20 run (10/mile pace, which mean only walking the aid stations not most of the race). Then a 20 minute transitions, enough time to change, short nap and get back out there. That's 13:35....

My suggestion is to swim more, bike more and run more and this can all be possible for you. Unless of course you are over 65 years old or handicapped, then you have the full 14:30 hours.
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Thanks, thats kinda how I approach my IM's anyway.

I'll be 61 soon. I've done two IM's my swim at both 1:20. I'm not fast at swim, bike or run but I'm solid. I don't try to be "fast"

BTW I went 14:49 at IMMT but I had to bike and run on a broken toe...long, painful run for sure.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Well said.

This is exactly why the "self-seeding" isn't going to work.

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You are over 60 so you get a free pass and can do whatever the hell you want.....;-)


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its not a matter of fast or slow - its a matter of seeding your self properly rather than being inconsiderate and only thinking about your self - your not a :50-:55 min swimmer, don;t get in their way. Your not a :55 to 1:05 swimmer, don't get in their way - like you said 400 people were faster than you, thats a good number of people -

your attitude is a big part of what is wrong in triathlon IMO

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

You forgot the Fins and Floats wave.

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Suffer Well.

If they truly want to make it safer they need to do the following:

1. Tell triathletes to train more the swim, not ROI bs that EN teaches, swimming well is important for your own safety and that of others in the water.
2. Eliminate waves starts by AG and do according to swim times or time trial starts.
3. Eliminate looped swims unless you have a designated lane for 2nd loopers.

Food for thought....

I like this self seeding idea as long as they check swim times- there should be a penalty for anyone who falls out of a standard deviation of say 5 minutes from their seed time... Of course i'm a swimmer and hate navigating through the pack like i had to do at Wildflower this past Saturday. Does anyone know if these starts will affect the pro field? I can't imagine it will....

D

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Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com

I see this as an overreaction to a few isolated instances that have yet to be proven to be caused by ANY of the outside issues they are hoping to alleviate with these measures........truth is, once the mass start gets rolling, everyone self seeds...it's called your normal swim speed...with all the ramifications of folks potentially getting more than 17 hours to complete the race. Folks at the start of the line in Placid and CdA will now have almost an extra 30 minutes to finish the race, and while the whole 17 hours thing doesn't bother me - the fact is that people ARE going to be clamoring for those front spots either to extend their swim or overall cutoffs. Who are those folks looking for the extra time? The accomplished swimmers?? NO. It will be the folks that can least afford to be swum over....guess what IS going to happen.......BIG CAN 'O WORMS......

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Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, Götzen-Dämmerung (1899)

LOL... they already have the float wave.... it's called the 5mm wetsuit. I want the Sundecks on the "Anchored Resting Rafts", maybe with a bartender too...

Let's keep this thread on topic - swim starts. There has been plenty of commentary in other threads on "cut-off" times.

I have done crazy starts like Placid and Alcatraz where, as a fish, you try to get to the front and ahead of most of the chaos. It definitely adds some character- but I can understand the increased dangers associated with it. Yes, people will die from TT starts, mass starts, and every other type of swimming event. The goal is to minimize and mitigate the stress, not outright prevent swim deaths. The self seeding with a rolling start will ensure things stay competitive, and I think I would actually prefer it to a wave start where I am put in the undesirable position of swimming thru hundreds of people throughout the duration of the entire swim. This works for marathons with 20k people, it will work here.

Other good points from this program - increased emphasis on warm up opportunity and temperature. I think the 55degree min is a little too high, but 88 as a max is totally appropriate. This is one positive outcome from the tragic death of Fran Crippen.

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Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete

So should we all reconvene after the swim so all the slower bikers can self-seed to the bike? I have major issues passing slower riders on the bike. Happened in St. George this weekend. I was literally having to touch elbows with people riding all the way to the left (even though there were 6 feet of space to the right). Passing hundreds of riders on these courses is dangerous too. Where's my protection?

If you start toward the front in a self-seeding event KNOWING that you are not a faster swimmer, you deserve what you get in terms of getting swam over. Seriously. It is like the little kids who go to the front of the field in a running event and their parents are just sitting there giggling at them while the sub-6 minute runners are staring at them like WTF????

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Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

That's actually not a bad idea at all.

Problems with the streaming start:
1) You really won’t know whether you are ahead or behind anyone on course.
2) The clock at the finish line won’t be accurate. So, the announcer won’t be able to cheer people in saying “C’mon James, 10 more seconds to break 12 hours!”.
3) You lose the excitement of that cannon going off and everyone surging for the water -- that is fun.

But the above idea could make is safer and keep the race competitiveness.

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blog: transitionfour.com
twitter: @tritweeter

I respectfully disagree with the decision but understand why it is being done. Now I just need to find a way manufacture a little internet outrage so the world knows how superior I am. This thread is ridiculous.

I agree, and that is my point. I will absolutely follow all rules, and if IM required me to "prove" my swim strength I'd do that and stay in my corale. But if I am allowed to choose where I start, I will give myself every advantage I can.