Damn Slomwan, now T3_beer has to provide the synopsis for this daily in the summary thread!

Lance is offended that he did not qualify for for instagram model nor crossfit athlete. He's sending Hincapie for those parts.

Do you think it's possible for someone to observe the claim and come away skeptical for reasons that "it's very unlikely that she's capable of the feat, physically and logistically" rather than fear? Or is anything other than "good for her!" proof positive of "an underlying fear and a terrible emotional response"? Is this exclusive to women?

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Neck up or neck down?

I think it is possible for both type of responses and in combination.
It is not exclusive to women for me since I have been around more AH types than any other type of female athlete and have helped multitudes of women in the past prepare for bodybuilding competitions.

However, my post was inclusive to me on how I view someone else and taking another look at my response and see if it could be refined. My post was not about judgment of how others may respond because I am not omniscient. I agree that some are only doubting that she could accomplish the feat and it proved to be true in the AH case.

Ultimately, you can simply sum-it-up as Conceit.

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29 years and counting

I think you're going to need a very carefully written POLL to capture the responses of all your readers.

I'm sure there is a segment of st'ers who turned away from the saga to avoid AH's navel gazing and the related criticisms. Those folks aren't going to spend any time here, either. Only a poll will get their opinions.

i don't know for sure yet how to construct the poll. what it seems to me, the common thread that ties the heightened animation of folks to a particular person, is the perceived contempt or disregard folks have for the sport that we all engage in. whether you're doping, cutting a course, flaunting rules, or treating the difficulty of an effort with a cavalier attitude, that's what really sets people off.

so far. until i come up with another theory.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Ding! Winner winner chicken dinner.

A common question that gets asked is "why not just ignore the person". My response would be "it's hard to ignore someone following you around banging on a drum and symbols".

The "drum and symbols" are largely the social media platforms we engage in today, that we did not 20 years ago.

You could say, "sign off". I don't think that's fair. If you follow certain things closely enough with a healthy interest, it'll show up sooner or later.

Agreed and early on things about her history made it look likely that if this went on long enough she would be caught "doping, cutting a course, flaunting rules, [AND] treating the difficulty of an effort with a cavalier attitude"

I think you encapsulated it pretty well there.

I wonder how these types of efforts like AH-- an outsider or 'intruder' from another sport trying to take on very lofty goals-- are received in other sports? There are not many comparisons to make that are 1:1, Gwen moving from Tri to distance running seems to be the best fit, but even then there is strong overlap in skill set. Trying to come up with other examples, but something like Michael Jordan or Tim Tebow attempting pro baseball doesn't seem to fit compared to AH since there are hard gates and systems in place to determine skill level. Same with Usain Bolt making a possible go at a soccer career. I know many would not expect success from those athletes trying another sport, but there is also not likely the same personal investment between an intramural baseball or soccer participant and an amateur, but passionate, triathlete.

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I think you're right. I feel possessive about triathlon because it has meant something special to me for over half of my life.

The intentional course cutting, doping, sexualized self-promotion doesn't fit who I am or my image of triathlon. So, I understand the strong desire to set things right.

On the other hand, I feel like if a woman wants to be a moron and post a ton of crap about doing 50/50/50, let her. Whatever. It's really not about triathlon. What it means to be a woman with a body is tricky. Tons of women fight with their bodies. So, I see this AH junk as a well-intentioned but messed up effort to feel good. The mind-over-matter empowerment message is a ray of hope for some women, I guess. I don't want to be mean to my sister-women who are struggling. I have compassion for their nuttiness.

WTF?!? Get a grip, dude. That term jumped the gender shark years ago; it's not 1985 anymore. You ever heard of Lance Armstrong? Try a search here using "Lance" and "Attention Whore" and see what you get... I'd gladly bet that AH only garners a miniscule fraction of the hits LA gets.

It's still meant as a pejorative though, I'll grant you that.

Well let's be honest, would you let someone come to your house and shit all in it? Most people wouldn't so if your trying to identify this as some type of "triathlon" specific response, I think it's far more simple then that....it's simple human emotions- respect. That's why I laugh at the people who talk about how this is a bunch of triathletes who can't handle their feelings being hurt by someone coming in not like them.

Ever seen baseball reporters with their "holier than though" attitude who slammed the steroid era players 10 years back? Even fans were pissed off at the players for "cheating" them, unless it was a player on your team, then it was "oh man your just hating him because he's good".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i quoted you in a new post over in the womens forum.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Here is my take: Everyone would like to be important. Everyone would like to think that what they do is significant and/or important. There are very few occupations that allow one to be significant/important; and within those jobs, actually achieving significance/importance is another not insignificant hurdle. So….the sport of triathlon (and Ironman in particular) has a certain significance associated with it, even among the non-athletic crowd. AH attempt at doing what she was doing did not require success at the task to be successful (she received more attention, which seems to be the goal based on her displayed history) and it also potentially diminishes the significance of the accomplishment that fulfills the need to feel important/significant as a result of finishing an IM…….so it is very personal for everyone that feels put down by AH attempting this, and getting so much attention/significance attached to her. It is kind of like her personally saying to each person “hey, what you do is lame, and I can do it better”, and then not being able to rebut this statement…..except on a forum such as this. Im not even going to start into how this lacks a sense of 'fairness', as that is a whole other set of baggage.


At least that is what I get from it.
Personally, I feel kind of the same way about IC….he put his whole family on the line so that he could live his dream of being able to make a living off what most of us use as a hobby. I would love to spend more time doing this hobby, but I would be risking every other persons livelihood/future in my family if I did so; so it comes down to being jealous in a way… Jealous that I can not put my own priorities in front of those of my family, but I understand that is my problem (that darn guilt thing). But I digress.
Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

As others said, it might chalk up to good ole skepticism on our part and a good dose of hubris on her part.
You can verify that by comparing the threads about AH with the one made about Maarten van der Weijden's attempt at swimming 200k non-stop. That guy is, beyond question, the real deal. He definitely knew what his challenge entailed and I think it was a bit sad that he couldn't do it. The reaction here to his attempted feat mirrors that.

But you see, Maarten didn't try to wheelie across the Americas or anything that he knew he wasn't prepared to do and - most importantly - didn't boast about that. Did he try to promoted himself? Most likely, but he tried it at something that he knew he had a realistic shot at. AH, on the other hand, looks like something that jumped straight out of that "The Secret" book that was all the rave some years ago. She's the contemporary manifestation of the "wishful thinking makes your dreams real" that seems to still be roaming around. She's not a fitness star, she's a new age guru in 21st century robes.

The saddest thing is the people that believe her garbage without question. I'm not religious, but as Americans might say, "God bless their hearts".

As much as it pains me to admit it, I'd have to agree with you here. I, too, think that it's a response to the feelings we as triathletes have regarding our own exploits. At first we fear that, what if, she actually pulls it off? What does that say about our accomplishments? Then, we realize she can't, sigh a big sense of relief, and attack like animals towards wounded prey. Whether the prey deserves it or not. It's more a mirror into us than anything she does since in reality what she does or does not do really shouldn't keep us caring about it so much. And yes, we can get self righteous and claim its about more than that- the lack of respect for the sport, the cheating, etc. But I think these things are just more of a way to avoid looking into our own insecurities-she becomes an example of a classic scapegoat . Just my 2 cents...

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"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

In the south we just say "bless your heart.". But there is a certain cadence and intonation to it.

especially when you're talking to someone, say a weight lifter or cross fitter, and they say "I know someone who did 50 ironmans in 50 days! they can't be that hard"

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I don't know about you, but I never, even for a fraction of a second, considered her capable of completing the challenge. If the 50/50/50 she was doing was in sprint or oly distance, I might've held my breath, but Iron distance? I don't believe in miracles.

At first we fear that, what if, she actually pulls it off? What does that say about our accomplishments?//

You really think this?? I believe that most if not all of us who commented on the impossibility of this task, had no reservations that it might just be possible. (by her) It never entered my psyche that this was in anyway achievable, in fact I didn't think it would go even a few days. 50, may has well have been a 1000 days in a row, it was just some number that made no sense, and as I like to remind my kids, was a nonsense comment..


In reality(where she doesn't reside it appears) she could have attempted an olympic distance each day and maybe got more than half way through, maybe a bit longer. At least a good college try, but no, she had to say she was flying to the moon on a paper airplane, so no, my accomplishments were never threatened..

Dan, I also wish I knew what it was that motivates the masses to respond, but it mystifies me. If I knew, Id bottle it and sell it. It does seem that IC and AH offend this forum in a way that people just cannot let it lie. But wow, the consistency of the responses and the longevity of the AH thread is quite remarkable. I would suggest running an algo mapping between the people commenting on the AC thread and your recent "time on ST" poll. The results might be interesting.

As an an aside, for all of the hatred that IC received over here, do we at least recognize that he put in a damned good effort? You run many nostalgic stories about people breaking ground back in their day, exploring unchartered territory. For me, IC did something extraordinary and deserves some respect. Is there a reason he was never interviewed here (or did I miss it)?

I think you nailed it. Practioners of any sport, be they pro or amateur or weekend warrior who are invested in their activity in general (and not just in triathlon) feel that those making the transition from another sport to theirs should go through the hoops of "approval".

As you mentioned Michael Jordan doing baseball (or should we say banished to baseball), or perhaps a better examples are athletes like John Elway (drafted in 2 sports, by the Yankees and Colts) or David Winfield who drafted in the MLB, NFL and NBA drafts. Winfield was actually drafted as a pitcher with the 4th overall pick by the Padres, but his hall of fame career was as a batter (>3000 hits, >1800 RBIs). Or Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders playing MLB and NFL. There is a gating system in other sports where people can claim to be "validated" by the other sport that they step across to.

Ashley, is stepping across sports, and "self validating" via social media.

If Tom Brady steps across and claims to be a better pitcher than Washington National's 2017 Cy Young Winner Max Scherzer, you can bet all kinds of people from the baseball world will be all over Brady. While Ashley is not claiming to be superior to Daniela Ryf, or Gwen Jorgenson, she's kind of implying that she can do way more than them and do deadlifts and squats along the way, and in effect putting the difficutly of the entire sport down.

So she's "self validating" while dismissing the level of difficulty of the sport she is stepping into...damn right people are going to call her on her self promotion.

I was trying to speak in a collective sense when I shouldn't have been. Overgeneralizations don't work, I know. I don't necessarily think she could have, no. But I also am a firm believer in "what ifs" I suppose. I'm not her, not in her body or mind, nor am I able to fully understand her motivations- nor could I honestly predict the outcome. I could only speculate, and I too took a negative approach to it and was proven correct. But what if she accomplished 10? At what point during the attempt would we sit back and think- " holy sh8t" . I personally think it was a car wreck from the start, and people love to rubberneck. But it also puts the IC's accomplishment in a different perspective in my opinion. And I don't for a minute think that you should or would think that your accomplishments would be threatened either. You kinda earned your ethos a long time ago.

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"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski