I did not read 29 pages of this thread......... proof of vaccine for race participation: seems like a no brainer to me honestly, its the price of getting to play what's the big deal? WTC is a private company so they can do what they want. I dont want to hear about infringing on your rights bla bla bla, you dont have to race if you dont get want to get vaccinated thats all. Have a great Friday morning.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Just a general warning about tone, civility, and the way you're approaching this thread.

Carry on.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Denali will be epic. I'm hoping to summit Aconcagua in several years after gaining more experience. In reading about the difficulties of each, one author noted that Denali is much more difficult to get to summit day, then not as bad as Aconcagua. The reverse is true for Aconcagua, much, much easier to get to summit day, but a harder effort on the last day. Overall though, Denali is hands down more difficult. Best of luck on your journey.

Thank you kindly.... yes I need a change from
Triathlon for a little while, Excited for the next year or so on some different journeys.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

It's like Hotel California....you can check out any time, but you can never leave....

I know :-/

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I am not sure if you are referring to me exclusively or mixing my posts with somebody else's

Relative to the thread topic, I believe racing Triathlon at an amateur level is not a fundamental right. Therefore private race organizers can do as they wish in terms of requirements to be eligible to participate for as long those requirements do not infringe fundamental rights. Requiring proof of vaccination does not constitute such a violation, so I am supportive of that if it makes business sense to them.

With that said, I have brought up in this thread a factual matter. This factual matter is that only one out of three relevant indicators of clinical trials, only the least meaningful is being used by the media and by politicians to convince us that it is good to get a Covid vaccination (RRR). Then I brought up those two missing indicators from the official data for the clinical trials from Pfizer and other vaccines (0.7 ARR and 144 NNT in the case of Pfizer). Then I have developed why based on those numbers and others, such as the negative side effects as recorded in some public data bases, I have decided not to take a vaccination for the time being.

For that, I have been insulted, I have been told to shut-up, and in a more civilized manner I have been told to trust the media and "the consensus of experts", whatever that means. I have only seen one person challenge me with facts and data.

Since I consider this fora to be largely comprised by smart people, the above has allowed me to reach two conclusions:

1. In times of high collective uncertainty even some of the smartest people might loose their ability to reason and need to hold on to certain beliefs (which I understand and respect)
   
2. There is not much scientific data to prove that vaccinations are as effective as they are portrayed. Otherwise it would have been brought up by someone not affected by the above conclusion.

PD. Apparently being insulted and told to shut up is OK, and when you respond those telling you to shut-up with dictatorship analogies it becomes bad. I find that ironic, to say the least.

Don Felder, Don Henley and Glen Fry have us covered from back in 1977, approximately the same time tri was getting going.

Time to refresh #followthescience.

1. Athletes are testing positive even thought they have the vax. Tokyo Olympics are going to be a CLUSTER


https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-athletes-coronavirus-jon-rahm-chris-paul-11624579218?mod=trending_now_news_pos5

The positive tests also complicate the argument made to athletes that vaccination will spare them from a positive test that bars them from competition. Now sports leaders have to contend with questions such as: Are people who are vaccinated but testing positive for the virus contagious? What does this mean for their close contacts? Who, if anyone, should be removed from the biggest event of their lives?


Vaccinated people who have turned up positive for the virus include an unnamed American track and field athlete, another person attending the U.S. Olympic team trials in Eugene, Ore., and two members of the Ugandan Olympic delegation traveling to Tokyo for a pre-Games training camp.


Breakthrough infections are believed to be rare, though exactly how rare is unclear. That’s in large part because most asymptomatic cases would only be detected by the kind of frequent testing that is rarely deployed outside of settings such as sports.


2. The mostest vaxed country in the world has a COVID outbreak and is re-imposing masks.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57594155

3. It turns out the effectiveness of the shot might decay faster than we thought. Time to sign up for your vaccine subscription service!

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/23/covid-19-antibodies-appear-to-wane-rapidly-so-prepare-for-booster-shots-study-suggests/

The perhaps not-so-good news: It took just three months for antibodies to the virus’ spike protein to wane by some 90 percent — meaning booster shots are likely on the horizon.


In a peer-reviewed study published June 23 in the journal ACS Nano, UCLA researchers compared the immune responses of people who recovered from COVID-19 infections and then got the two-shot series, with those who never had COVID-19 and got the two-shot series.

There were 28 people in the never-had-COVID group. A single dose of either vaccine triggered antibody levels similar to what’s seen after mild COVID-19 infections. After two doses, these folks had antibody levels approaching what’s seen after severe infections.

I think the real problem here is that people just do not understand stats. If they say a vaccine is 95% effective, that means 5% of people will still get the virus. SO we should absolutely be seeing some small number of infections among the vaccinated, which it looks like this article is saying. The problem is when folks buy into the vaccine= immunity nonsense, and then act in manners that will let that 5% chance get in there and get them.

The science has not changed, it seems to be right about what they always said it would be. The problem is people. If you are going to the olympics, which is probably the biggest deal in your life to date(and probably until you die), then don't be flippant about all the other protocols just because you got your shot. It is not a free pass to pre Covid normalcy..

I agree, but you have your numbers wrong. 95% is RRR which means that there will be 95% more people that are infected out of those that where not vaccinated, than from those that where. And those numbers are true for Pfizer, others are different.

Ya, all the numbers can be different for different circumstances, my main point was that one is not immune just by getting the shot, and some small number are still going to get infected. Just like the deaths now in the US, 400 or so a day, virtually every one is a non vaccinated person. There is less that 1% dying with the vaccine now, so possible, just no probable..

please read what monty wrote. virtually everyone now dying of covid in the U.S. is unvaccinated. what do you want to bet that almost all the hospitalizations are also among the unvaccinated? you're a fool, klaus.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Most Olympic athletes are in their twenties. They are going abroad to one of the greatest events we have while being in the shape of their lives. They've had lockdowns and restrictions like the rest of us for over a year. In Rio they handed out 450,000 condoms. I think it would be a bit naive to imagine they are going to wear masks and stick to a recommended distance in all social interactions.

I love the Olympics and I'll take time off work to watch it. I'm glad it's going ahead and that is purely selfish. There will be loads of positives, empty lanes, quarantines. Almost all of those will be an idiot and only have themselves to blame but it will still happen.

Regarding language 'immunity', like a lot of language, means something different in different contexts. In a medical context you absolutely do build immunity through vaccinations. Our immune system gives us resistance and that can be strengthened. I don't think I'm telling anyone something they don't know. If I was given immunity from prosecution because I blew the whistle on something I'd expect that to mean complete protection which is a very different thing. Are people really confusing that?

This has to be the way forward, its only political if you want it to be. Reading some of the comments the 'passport' has to be more than an easily faked piece of paper. There should be a secure database of people who have had been vaccinated and race organisers should easily be able to cross reference race entries i.e enter your vaccination code if your code doesnt match you cant progress with entry, maybe I am asking too much but that's the way it should be done.

It's political because the reporting on VAERS has definitely not been accurate when it comes to side-effects. It is becoming overwhelming that the mRNA vaccine is leading to cases of Myocarditis in Healthy young men. The FDA has "Finally" decided to issue a warning about it.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Putting triathlon aside, in the rest of the world, it should be viable for your vaccination to be entered in a govt data base that gets uploaded into a global one (those donkeys at WHO should be useful to manage something since they turned a blind eye to the Wuhan Inst of Virology and their gain of function research etc etc). That could then be read only and if someone gives their vaccination serial number, then anyone in the world should be able to pull up their name, date of vaccinations, what vaccine was used, and who administered it).

But that would create two classes of global citizens, those whose govt partake in the system and those whose govts cannot or do not.

As it stands, I would walk around or travel with an easily foregeable record of vaccination. Someone could literally stand outside triathlon registration with a printer creating any vaccination pdf prinout that people want to show tri officials that they have "papers"

I THINK the honest people will stay honest, but there is plenty of PCR test forging already going on for all kinds of things.

from your own link:

it's 1 in 177,000, and when it happens, "Most patients who received care responded well to treatment and rest and quickly felt better... Patients can usually return to their normal daily activities after their symptoms improve."

it's political when politics inform public health rather than the other way around.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Politics have had overt influence on Public Health throughout the entire process since this virus hit our shores. And politics colors whether you want a vaccine passport or not.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Absolutely. Other things that can result in Myocarditis include other vaccines and, most significantly, Covid itself. Were we hoping to come up with a vaccination that didn't have the the rare side effects that other vaccinations have? There are studies that came up with 0.7% and 0.6% of athletes who were infected with Covid.

If you are worried about your heart during the Covid pandemic it's pretty obvious where the risk is and what the best way to protect yourself is.

the politics only cuts in one direction only on this. you don't get the vaccine because of your politics. you don't wear a mask because of your politics. you do these things because with some very rare exceptions (and i can't think of any examples) public health experts are not driven by political considerations. we get vaccines for mumps, smallpox, etc., not because it benefits a political tribe at the expense of another. we acknowledge that we're not epidemiologists, so we attach weight to the recommendations of those who are.

i think you can tell from people's postings here whether the hesitancy to get this vaccine rises from political bias or from actual concern about the safety of the vaccine. if the same person is consistently anti-covid-vax, anti-mask, etc., then politics informs the public health stance. i think it's pretty clear who these folks are.

i've been doing a pretty poor job of working on the tractors on the compound here, because the mechanic who works on them is in the hospital recovering from covid. he's been there so long (3mo) they're now teaching him how to walk again. he was suspicious of public health experts. he isn't now. we all lose when politics informs medicine. me as well. i can't figure out why that red warning light on the dashboard of my backhoe is on.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The world is larger than the US. Plus anecdotal evidence proves nothing.