"but for joe shmoe who only joins USAT so he can do a couple of races, tosses the newsletter in the junk mail pile, and couldn't give a rats ass about USAT other than he needs it (the vast majority of USAT members it seems) he'd be a little pissed to say the least. "

hey, man, I actually DO give a rat's ass (and I read the damn thing before tossing it, how do you think I found out I was #1900!?)

it's just that I see USAT with their hand out everywhere I look.

and I prefer joe blow, thank you

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Big differences here, though. First, Deena is a professional and didn't have to pay for her uniform. Secondly, and most importantly, Nike pays about $3million per year to be the sponsor of USATF teams and, for the most part, the gear is pretty good. However, I don't think you can compare triathlon to track and field, swimming would be more appropriate. If you remember from Athens, or if you're watching the FINA Worlds, the Americans are allowed to wear anything they want, so long as it is navy/red with a US logo on it. You've got Phelps up there in is Speedo stuff, Piersol in Nike, so-and-so in TYR, etc...but all are part of the US Team and still plugging their sponsors. Sponsors who are relatively small, dollar-wise, and spend promotional money for these 'once in 4 years' events.

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Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

I'm not sure when the deal happened, but I seem to recall hearing about the possibilty of the deal in November, I could be wrong though. The point being, there are already a lot of things in place that are set to happen this year and next year that the new BOD had no say in, yet we are going to be blamed for, welcome to politics Mr. Plumb ;-)

It appears from the previous post that we are getting the uniforms at close to wholesale, I can live with that, I think it is a step in the right direction. Logo deal looks like it is sort of straightened out, you can put any logo on within ITU regs. The user fee, I still don't agree with that and will find out more about it. I think your number of 400 going to Worlds is close, I have a figure of around 350, still a lot of people and a lot of money.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

"I'm not sure when the deal happened"

hey, i'm good, but i'm not good enough to stop a board initiative when i'm no longer on the board. oh, wait, i did do that (prop2), so i guess i can accept your criticism :-)

as to the uniform thing, that is more monty's beef than mine, tho i do not see as we needed to go to a NZ-based company to outfit Team USA. i think that is in pretty poor taste, and betrays a lack of sensitivity to what the job of supplying Team USA is all about.

i'm more concerned about the service fee, and i also am concerned with USAT's response to this so far, which is, "we can't do anything about it, because it's in the budget."

so, if fraud is approved as part of the budget, then you can't do anything about it? i don't want to overstate the sin here, but when you promise a set of services, demand a fee for those services, and then you don't provide them, maybe there's a nicer word i should use?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

<It's funny how everyone's an expert. Do you work for USAT?>


No, I don't work for USAT, but their financials are a matter of record. And as Dan said earlier, the round figure for this years worlds in Hawaii is 400/ That times $100 = $40,000. The past clothing deals for the past few years has been in the $25,000 range. So yes, these are educated guesses, and in the ballpark. I believe you must work for USAT to be so flippant about this, and try to dismiss it as the ramblins of an old broken down pro triathlete.

As for the uniform guidlines, yes you quoted very nicely the ITU stance. While you were on the USAT site, I guess you didn't notice the part where THEY (USAT) don't allow any competiting sponsors. That's everyone that makes clothing, the parent company of that company, or any other conflict with Orca. That includes just about every sponsor in our sport, since they all make some sort of clothing.

Anything else you want to take out of context????

<You really don't know me well enough to think that I'm not a fighter !!! >

I'm glad to hear that you have some spunk in your bones, and yes, lets have a beer or two after the race this year. My only point to you was that thiis thread as you can see, has gotten quite a bit of activity. Almost all of it supporting my grievance towards USAT and their policy. When people get on and show apathy towards the situation, then they will see this as a non issue, and continue to rip us off. Think about this DB, what if the extra fee was $1000, $2000, or more. What number do you get involved and scream ripoff??? It's not that I can't pay the fee, but it's the principal of the whole idea, that they can just charge whenever and whatever they want, and without our permission...

<It appears from the previous post that we are getting the uniforms at close to wholesale, .

Hey Mike, welcome to the thread. I have the prices for the clothing, and it appears to be about 30% off their retail. Here's my question. If we have to pay a price where they make more than selling to their dealers by about 20%, why are we forced to use these uniforms, and have to conform to their sponsorship restrictions. Orca is making good money off us, is this really a sponsorship deal? Why can we not buy from an American company that makes, and has made team USA clothing for the past dozen years or so?? What is it I'm missing here????

Too bad the "race" line has pockets in the back of the one piece, ultimately rendering it useless for a non-wetsuit swim (for Short course in Hawaii) That's some heads up thinking!!!

You must remember that this is not about function or common sense. It is about dollars, period. You would think that our so called uniform comittee, or whoever did this deal, would have thought about this, but instead we are left to deal with it ourselves.

living in Hawaii where yes the non-wetsuit swimmable race suit problem is an everyday occurance I can say that the pocket(s) on the back of most suits usually make no difference at all in the water. Granted the Orca Elite stuff is probably marginally slipperier the main complaint I hear from my pro friends who wear orca stuff (granted this is only a handful of people) is that there is no back pocket... and of course from the guys if you've ever happened to look in the mirror or say had a big picture of yourself on the front page of the sports section (a true story) racing across the finish line in your Orca suit with your "package" very clearly outlined in perfect detail for all the readers to see.

Personally I swim in a Descente 2 piece but have used the Desoto suits no problem. I don't see the pockets as a major drag issue at all. Sometimes I'll use a TYR Aquashift (fastskin like) suit over the regular suit but realistically it seems to make no difference whatsoever.

Hell Norman won Kona in a Desoto with that monster mesh pocket.

Mark, keeping in mind that I agree with you, the uniforms are a tad overpriced and I think that we should get a better deal. Personally I am alright with the pricing, partly because any of the previous years that I have gone to Worlds, we were basically charged retail and this is a step in the right direction for a change. That being said, also keep in mind that these are not quite the same pieces that you can go to the store and buy. There is some screenprinting involved, and although that is a minor expense, it does add another dollar or two to the cost of each piece. Maybe not enough to warrent the price difference, but none the less, there are some added expenses that you don't see up front. I really don't see getting the prices changed at this point of the game though since these was something that was a done deal before I came onboard. Now the user fee, that is another problem and I do have a major beef with USAT collecting 35 - 40k from us to fund the trip for a handful of others. I need a better explaination of what is going on with that then what I have recieved so far and I should be able to get that on Friday I think.

As far as other clothing companies being used, I don't know what the exact process is regarding the selection of the maufacturer, and I know where you're going with that, you'd rather see Desoto be the exclusive supplier. I don't have a problem with that, but at the same time, I don't think (don't know for sure) that all of Desoto clothing is made here in the USA either. Feel free to correct me on that if I am 100% wrong, I don't have my favorite running shorts here to look at the label to tell for sure.

From what I understand, Orca has a 3 year deal with the uniforms, so anyone that qualifies this year and buys the uniform, they will be able to use it for any of the next three years. Of course we could go in and change that, then everyone would have to buy all new uniforms again next year from the new supplier.

Anyhow, just know for now that I am looking into these things and not entirely happy with what I see on the surface.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

They always told us it was an ITU regulation about not letting atheletes have sponsors logos on their team gear...



They being USAT.

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Fast-Finishes.com
Triathlon and Running Race Timing
Athletic Event Management

<you'd rather see Desoto be the exclusive supplier.>



That wasn't my point, if we are going to pay for our clothes, then ought we not have a CHOICE as to whose clothes we can use. Get a few clothing companies here that operate in the US to make team gear, get them to give us a cost plus price, and let us choose what to wear. Like an earlier poster put up about the olympic swimmers, every different suit manafacturer under the sun, but all red, white, and blue. And what is it about this deal that makes it so exclusive, and binds us to 3 years with them???

By the way Mike, thanks for your help and work for us at USAT. It will be nice to have an athlete there with an athlete's mentalitity....

[reply] I don't think (don't know for sure) that all of Desoto clothing is made here in the USA either. Feel free to correct me on that if I am 100% wrong, I don't have my favorite running shorts here to look at the label to tell for sure. [/reply]

Well, the two jerseys and three pair of DeSoto shorts I'm holding in my hand all say MADE IN THE USA.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"I don't think (don't know for sure) that all of Desoto clothing is made here in the USA either."

i believe de soto apparel is entirely, or almost entirely, made in the U.S. were you to put this out to open bid, with several hundred kits sold annually, well, that would represent the sort of arrangement you'd have with a foreign distributor, where you'd sell the apparel for about 20% off wholesale.

orca, or whomever, would be doubling their export price, based on the prices i've seen bandied about. the only way to know how low the price to the end user can go is to put two suppliers out there in the marketplace, and have them both fight for the business. i think the 3yr deal is great, it should justbe with two companies, and certainly at lest ONE of them should be a U.S. company.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

<Here in New Zealand we also have to book our air travel and accomodation for the world champs through the official travel agency as well as buy the official uniform>


Hey Scott, good to see you are still alive and kicking. You think you got it bad, our country is making us buy your country's clothes for team USA. How's that for outsourcing?? Ya, that's really shitty about having to book all travel through the company that pays your federation the most to rip all you guys off. That's one of the reasons I'm making a stand here on this issue, it could be worse. We could be racing for New Zealand...

So we will be racing in the same age group for one season here, how's your swimming going? There are a couple guys in the group that are pretty fast in the water, and it being a non wetsuit swim will make it a little better for us old swimmers. Tony Shiller was wicked fast at last years nationals, and there are a couple guys you never heard of that just race once every few years. One guy had the second fastest bike split at nationals overall at the first Shreverport, and beat all the 40 plus guys..It just doesn't get any easier. At least we don't have to race your buddy there who now is in the 50+ group. What was his name again??? You know, Erins old friend....