Perhaps the corticosteroid shots he was cleared for, to recieve b/c of his hip isssues may affect that ratio...

Honestly I hope this is the case. I really like Floyd and his performance. This news really dissapoints me.

He was truly a breath of fresh air at this years tour, by both his personality and his performance.

Who knows? The world of science does not know everything. Perhaps his freaky physiology and psychology caused these "unusually high" testosterone levels. Human physiology IS quite miraculous. (This, coming from a very big cynic).

I was praying that Landis would NOT get caught. His attitude and results have inspired me.

Pereiro was screwed, if this was caused by doping. The greatest moment of his career snatched away from him.

Right, because we KNOW that Pereiro must be clean, after magically riding his best TT EVER. He must be clean because he was not caught.

Don't be so naive.

Of course he tested positive for high levels of testosterone.

Anyone who watched stage 17 can plainly see that the man has balls the size of watermelons.

The cause of his hip problem was lack of blood flow due to poor healing of a fractured femur. For treatment, I believe he received a cortisone shot prior to the tour, which *is* a steroid, but it's not testosterone. Not the same thing.

Not really talking about the pro's, more about the elites and top AGers as well. I swear to god some of those AGers trying to Kona are on something...

They DO test at Ironman races. Unfortunately, it only typically is the top finishers (usually 3 pro places I believe).

...and they should do more testing outside of races, and those results made public. Every time.

---

Craig Preston - President / Preston Presentations
Saving the world with more professional, powerful, and persuasive presentations - one audience at a time.

<<That blows for him! I will wait until the B sample comes back before I form an opinion. My gut says he is innocent (as is Hamilton).>>

Now let's not flame him for this comment. It's easy to be uninformed when you go to bed early because the tooth fairy, easter bunny, Santa, Great Pumpkin, ect. might be coming!

I'm very cynical in this area generally, but consider this:

testosterone is a stress-response hormone.

it can spike in odd ways as a result of stress (the two forms need not, I think, spike equally). Stress like: dehydration/bonk; a huge physical effort; an orgasmic experience; certain psychological states.

consider also that if Landis missed a corticosteroid injection his testosterone might spike to compensate. (Not a normal response, but how many normal responses to anyone would one expect to get in the Tour?)

I hope this isn't proof of cheating, though I accept that it probably is. But I think this could get whole lot more convoluted

---

Stuff I like:
PBscience Triathlon Coaching and Lab Testing

I thought cortisol was the "stress hormone." Never heard testosterone refered to as a stress hormone. Also, I thought testosterone levels declined as a result of chronic stress, which is why athletes supplement it.

Can anyone name a French rider suspected of doping?

Disclaimer: This comment is not intended to offend the French people or the French nation as a whole.

"Right, because we KNOW that Pereiro must be clean, after magically riding his best TT EVER. He must be clean because he was not caught.

Don't be so naive. "

Lets see..... He didn't test positive. He didn't do anything superhuman. He did ride a great time trial, about 1 and 1/2 minutes slower than Landis.

If you would check your facts and research, he has done very good time trials, and has won a race after riding one of them.

Don't be so ..... O'Reillyish.

If you are implying that not being tested positive does not imply he was not doping, then you are saying that Lance never testing positive is no defense against doping accusations against him. Is this what you are saying?

BTW, I think all these guys should be allowed to dope. If they want to kill themselves for my enjoyment, more power to them.

---

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

Could athletes dope without knowing about it?

No. That excuse has been tried many times. It was a joke then and is a joke now. Landis, and all the others knew exactly what they were doing.

---

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

[reply]Can anyone name a French rider suspected of doping?

[i]Disclaimer: [/i][i]This comment is not intended to offend the French people or the French nation as a whole.[/i][/reply]

Don't you know the peloton is at two speeds, with the poor French being the slow, clean ones? Of course that whole doping thing involving French riders from Cofidis and the recent pot belge one involving French riders is all just a myth.

---

______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

I am beyond words. This is devastating to the US, the Tour and to the sport of cycling. I can only hope that it is not true. I can not understand why he would take a chance on losing everything just to win. A loss would have been much less embarrassing and damaging. I am just sick over this.

---

http://www.triontherunfitness.com
http://www.triontherun.com
http://www.ontheruntx.com

http://www.jatox.com/abstracts/2000...-vandekerk.html

Evaluation of Testosterone/Epitestosterone Ratio Influential Factors as Determined in Doping Analysis
D.H. van de Kerkhof1, D. de Boer1,2, J.H.H. Thijssen1,3, and R.A.A. Maes1
1Utrecht Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences (UIPS), Department of Human Toxicology, University of Utrecht, Sorbonnelaan 16, 3584 CA Utrecht, The Netherlands; 2Instituto Nacional do Desporto, Laboratório de Análises de Dopagem e Bioquímica, Av. Prof. Egas Moniz (Estádio Universitário), 1600 Lisboa, Portugal; and 3Department of Endocrinology, Academisch Ziekenhuis Utrecht, Heidelberglaan 100, P.O. Box 8550, 3508 GA Utrecht, The Netherlands

The ratio of the concentration of testosterone glucuronide to the concentration of epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E ratio) as determined in uri ne is the most frequently used method to prove testosterone abuse by athletes. A T/E ratio higher than 6 has been considered as proof of abuse in the past; however, cases of naturally occurring higher T/E ratios have been described. Since the introduction of the T/E ratio in doping analysis, the parameters that may or may not influence the T/E ratio, possibly leading to false-positive results, have been debated. To achieve more insight on the influencing circumstances, an overview is given to obtain an objective view on the merits of the urinary T/E ratio. Relevant analytical aspects of the T/E ratio, potential parameters of endogenous and exogenous origins, as well as some alternative methods to determine testosterone abuse, such as the urinary testosterone/luteinizing hormone ratio, gas chromatography- combustion-isotope-ratio mass spectrometry, hair analysis, and high-performance liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry, are discussed.

Correct title for the thread: Phonak confirms Floyd has A sample with an elevated ratio.



But that's so scientific, and isn't anywhere as exciting as (at this point) erroneously jumping to the conclusion: "Landis Positive".

Lets see..... He didn't test positive. He didn't do anything superhuman. He did ride a great time trial, about 1 and 1/2 minutes slower than Landis.

If you would check your facts and research, he has done very good time trials, and has won a race after riding one of them.

If you are implying that not being tested positive does not imply he was not doping, then you are saying that Lance never testing positive is no defense against doping accusations against him. Is this what you are saying?

Actually, look at his results. His TT WAS a performance of a LIFETIME. Not concrete evidence of doping, but it does make one wonder...


BTW, I think all these guys should be allowed to dope. If they want to kill themselves for my enjoyment, more power to them.


I sort of agree with you here (not the killing part). Where were you to back me up the other day?

explain your two posts, on one you cannot believe Landis is a dope, and on the other you spare nothing to throw Pereiro under the bus???

ahh of course an american hero can do no wrong... it is all the French's fault, I call for an immediate boycot.....

This is a damn shame if it holds up through the B sample.

It was an amazing story and I pulled for the guy through the final stage.

Professional cycling better figure out how to deal with its drug problem. Sound like every major cyclist out there is on something. Either clean it up or legalize it....

Could athletes dope without knowing about it?

No. That excuse has been tried many times. It was a joke then and is a joke now. Landis, and all the others knew exactly what they were doing.

Of course they can dope without knowing it! I highly doubt that Floyd knows every chemical that is in the IV's that they give him. This goes along with my argument from the other day that these guy are being trained just like thoroughbreds.

If the authorities want to be totally pure to stop all doping, IV's will have to be removed from use.

Look at the east Germans in the 70s.

I didn't make up the title, just cut and paste from cyclingnews, a pretty respected and knowledgable publication.

But, that asside. Dude, he tested postitive.

Well, aren't you a friendly guy!

Actually, I am not uninformed. I am an MD and have studied the Hamilton case extensively. In Athens, Tyler’s blood sample was mistyped. His test results from the Games are also biologically impossible. The only reasonable possible explanations are: technical error, critical/terminal illness or genetic anomaly. Fouthermore, examination of Athens HBTT data run on other athletes during the Games, revealed that a significant number of other tests showed the same kind of results.

Life is way to fun to be so cynical!

explain your two posts, on one you cannot believe Landis is a dope, and on the other you spare nothing to throw Pereiro under the bus???

I NEVER said that I do not believe Landis is a dope (I said I hoped that he would not get caught). Read my posts. Then you will understand what I think. I think that they ALL use. I just don't think that Pereiro was robbed.

ahh of course an american hero can do no wrong... it is all the French's fault, I call for an immediate boycot.....

Please. I'm Canadian. Get real.

[reply][reply]
Correct title for the thread: Phonak confirms Floyd has A sample with an elevated ratio.



But that's so scientific, and isn't anywhere as exciting as (at this point) erroneously jumping to the conclusion: "Landis Positive". [/reply]


I didn't make up the title, just cut and paste from cyclingnews, a pretty respected and knowledgable publication.

But, that asside. Dude, he tested postitive.[/reply]

Technically he did not as the B sample has not confirmed the A sample. It's in the rules.

---

______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.