Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Path to bike improvement in triathlon
Quote | Reply
I’m looking to turn the corner (pun intended) in cycling. It’s my weakest of the three and is the limiter in terms of being able to find the podium in an IM sized 70.3.

I ride about 8 hrs a week. I don’t like to do ftp tests too often (feels like a wasted workout). I follow training plans for interval workouts. I ride a pretty optimized setup with a fit from a good fitter.

I’m thinking that a slight increase in volume with some detailed testing (inscyd?) may get me to a competitive bike split.

Is that a good idea?
What other option is there? $300 a month coaching is not an option.
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:
I’m looking to turn the corner (pun intended) in cycling. It’s my weakest of the three and is the limiter in terms of being able to find the podium in an IM sized 70.3.

I ride about 8 hrs a week. I don’t like to do ftp tests too often (feels like a wasted workout). I follow training plans for interval workouts. I ride a pretty optimized setup with a fit from a good fitter.

I’m thinking that a slight increase in volume with some detailed testing (inscyd?) may get me to a competitive bike split.

Is that a good idea?
What other option is there? $300 a month coaching is not an option.

It is a little hard to offer advice without some more background....
What does the 8 hours a week consist of?
What sort of power are you able to hold in training and on race day?
What bike splits have you done in the past?
What is your height and weight?
What sort of long rides do you do in the lead up to the event?
Are you racing to a % of FTP?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What's your current bike split? Power? Position?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [FeltMafia] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
5’6” - 125-130#
Results based on avg of multiple races
NP - 195ish; 78% ish
Split low 2:23-2:26 on a flat course.
Long ride apx 4 hrs
Typical week
2 zone 2 rides
1 hard ride
1 long ride

I think I’m in a good position dropped about 10 mins post fit (also added about 20 watts np)
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You can get a lot done in 8 hours on the bike.

Up to 4 hour long ride on Saturday.
Threshold intervals on a weekday, a 2 hour ride with warm up and cool down.
SST Intervals on another weekday, Basically a HIM paced ride for 2 hours including a warm up and cool down.
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you have 8 hours to ride a week, that should put you in a pretty good spot for 70.3 training. I ride a bit more than that and generally ride 6-7 days a week.

It depends on where you are in the season, but working on the higher end VO2 stuff in the off season, and then transitioning into a threshold focus would be a good place to start.

Of course, we are in 'race season' now, so that plan doesn't make the most sense. If you are focused on 70.3 training, doing longer intervals at race specific power (80-85%) is always good. I like to build up to 4-5x 30' at 70.3 power in longer rides leading into races.

Adding in one or two other 'quality' rides during the week, something like threshold intervals or VO2 work is a good way to maintain of build FTP at the same time. Simply adding in more volume can bump things up.

I saw my biggest bump in FTP during Covid shutdown, when I biked around 4500 miles over a three month stretch. 90% was very easy, with 10% or so really hard. I saw my first real bump up in power after many years of being around the same FTP - I saw around an 8% gain in FTP.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:
What other option is there? $300 a month coaching is not an option.
Do you have the opportunity to train - riding outdoors - with people that are faster than you?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:
I’m looking to turn the corner (pun intended) in cycling. It’s my weakest of the three and is the limiter in terms of being able to find the podium in an IM sized 70.3.

I ride about 8 hrs a week. I don’t like to do ftp tests too often (feels like a wasted workout). I follow training plans for interval workouts. I ride a pretty optimized setup with a fit from a good fitter.

I’m thinking that a slight increase in volume with some detailed testing (inscyd?) may get me to a competitive bike split.

Is that a good idea?
What other option is there? $300 a month coaching is not an option.

Personally the thing that took my cycling to the next level is signing up for zwift with a controllable trainer. Zwift has tons of awesome workouts and even has great training plans for all levels that if done consistently will definitely help you too
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The 78% jumps out a bit. 80-85 is generally accepted, but I would've thought those podiuming are much nearer 85%, if not nudging towards 90?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
natethomas wrote:
If you have 8 hours to ride a week, that should put you in a pretty good spot for 70.3 training. I ride a bit more than that and generally ride 6-7 days a week.

It depends on where you are in the season, but working on the higher end VO2 stuff in the off season, and then transitioning into a threshold focus would be a good place to start.

Of course, we are in 'race season' now, so that plan doesn't make the most sense. If you are focused on 70.3 training, doing longer intervals at race specific power (80-85%) is always good. I like to build up to 4-5x 30' at 70.3 power in longer rides leading into races.

Adding in one or two other 'quality' rides during the week, something like threshold intervals or VO2 work is a good way to maintain of build FTP at the same time. Simply adding in more volume can bump things up.

I saw my biggest bump in FTP during Covid shutdown, when I biked around 4500 miles over a three month stretch. 90% was very easy, with 10% or so really hard. I saw my first real bump up in power after many years of being around the same FTP - I saw around an 8% gain in FTP.

I just raced and am looking to build to a late October race 14ish weeks out.

The threshold to specific focus is probably timely. Late winter / spring I worked on 5 second and 1 minute power and did feel that it paid off racing. I may do a couple of those workouts early on.

I’m not sure I have time (in a day) for really big volume. I have been thinking about doing a home camp week where I really bump up cycling volume. How far out should that be done? Six to eight weeks?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:
What other option is there? $300 a month coaching is not an option.

"Ride lots" Eddy Merckx
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [jn46] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jn46 wrote:
The 78% jumps out a bit. 80-85 is generally accepted, but I would've thought those podiuming are much nearer 85%, if not nudging towards 90?

I’ve always struggled with hitting 80% ftp. Over the last couple seasons my ftp has been steady but my ability to ride a higher percentage of it and an easier PE (and one I can run off of) has been the improvement.

What you point out is why I was thinking of inscyd to ID what to work on to ride 85% and be able to run. My ftp fluctuates probably between 4.15 w/kg and 4.3. And I’ve been there for a while.
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Probably muscular endurance, especially with your smaller stature. Not sure how much low cadence or torque type riding you do, but you could just do one of your zone 2 rides at a pretty low rpm. Still keeps your HR in the right place.

Usual caveats probably apply about how accurate the FTP is as well. Maybe target some hilly bike courses as well where your w/kg will have greater impact on the overall standings?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Few thoughts from me; I'm 65kg (145?lbs) and 180cm (5'10?) and rode 2:10 at Challenge Championship this year off 245 watts (255 NP) or there abouts; I was really happy with this, but still gave away over 10 mins to the fastest rider in my AG simply off pure power (and a bit of aero) on a flat course. If I want a chance to finish higher up the pecking order I generally need to pick hillier races where I can use my W/kg advantage more, such as doing Swansea 70.3 later this year, where I hope I can be much closer to the fastest riders simply as its a hell of a lot harder for a 75kg guy to do 5 W/kg up a climb (375 watts) to my 325 watts for 5W/kg up a climb.

That said, I'd also see if you can use an off-season to dedicate to riding and pushing your FTP up a bit; increasing that top end power makes any surges to go with the groups less of a leg-sapping punch (even with 20m draft zone it's a decent difference), and also then gives you more room to push your 70.3 power up to without starting to edge towards over too high a % of FTP, although I'd agree 85% is a good target to aim for (I'm about 80-82% aiming to shuffle it up a little).

I appreciate I'm saying work on both FTP and upping the percentage FTP you can hold, but it's the accumulation of both at suitable points in the season that really helped me.

In terms of actual training I find Tempo and sweetspot over unders are a big go to for pushing my 70.3 power up, especially as they make me feel like my 70.3 power is a recovery compared to the overs above it. However it is often a case of finding the sessions that work for you. I also respond really well to just big base hours ended with a push a target power for 20 mins or so, but I also see it in the swim and run that working at target pace or just over when fatigued really helps me get settled into it ahead of racing. I also noticed my 70.3 power felt a hell of a lot easier after an off-season of strength work with relatively high rep/low % 1RM strength exercises alongside lots of core work. For building FTP honestly the biggest thing for me is a heck of a lot of base miles over winter combined with intensity from zwift racing or equivalent, be that high intensity workouts/CX racing or whatever works for you to get you pushing deeeeep in those shorter durations.

Also, if you can find training partners that'll push you/also understand easy rides should be easy then that can really help, it's crazy how much some company can help get the quality in, even if its a case of a mate sitting on the wheel whilst you do efforts that keeps you honest.

Hopefully some of that is of interest/help!
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What's your sporting history? How long have you been cycling? What percentage of your training time is spent cycling compared to swim+run?

Increasing volume is a good suggestion as you stated.
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [jn46] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What is muscular endurance?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jaretj wrote:
What is muscular endurance?

OMG I have a crush on you now!

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:

I’ve always struggled with hitting 80% ftp. Over the last couple seasons my ftp has been steady but my ability to ride a higher percentage of it and an easier PE (and one I can run off of) has been the improvement.

What you point out is why I was thinking of inscyd to ID what to work on to ride 85% and be able to run. My ftp fluctuates probably between 4.15 w/kg and 4.3. And I’ve been there for a while.



Doing some power profiling would work just as well if not better. A 1-1.5min, maybe a 5-8 min (go longer if you've got a big anaerobic capacity, shorter if not) and a 30-60 min effort (go longer if you have a big anaerobic capacity), all super hard. Throw it all into wko5 or a critical power worksheet and you will know what to work on.

FWIW I have athletes/had athletes that ranged from 68-94% of FTP for 90km and were still able to get off and run extremely well.
You're under riding if your FTP is actually in that 4.15-4.3 w/kg range. To me that says you need to structure your intervals differently and consider changing up the structure of your week a bit



Tri.Tony wrote:
The threshold to specific focus is probably timely. Late winter / spring I worked on 5 second and 1 minute power and did feel that it paid off racing. I may do a couple of those workouts early on.


Increasing your FRC/W'/AWC (whatever the kids are calling it these days) early in the training cycle is great especially if you are historically a low FRC type of athlete. I wouldn't focus too long on it. Let's say you get a 6w bump in FTP from it but 4w comes from FRC/anaerobic power. Is that really going to help you in a 70.3? I think with 14wk to go you could do some of this, but have bigger fish that need frying in those last 8-10 weeks before taper


Hope that helps


Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri.Tony wrote:
5’6” - 125-130#
Results based on avg of multiple races
NP - 195ish; 78% ish
Split low 2:23-2:26 on a flat course.
Long ride apx 4 hrs
Typical week
2 zone 2 rides
1 hard ride
1 long ride

I think I’m in a good position dropped about 10 mins post fit (also added about 20 watts np)

How efficient and economical is your swimming? Could it be that you are burning matches on the swim and that means you have to keep bike power at 78% rather than a little higher, so that you can still run? What sort of heart rate are you holding on your swim?
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [samtridad] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
samtridad wrote:
Tri.Tony wrote:
5’6” - 125-130#
Results based on avg of multiple races
NP - 195ish; 78% ish
Split low 2:23-2:26 on a flat course.
Long ride apx 4 hrs
Typical week
2 zone 2 rides
1 hard ride
1 long ride

I think I’m in a good position dropped about 10 mins post fit (also added about 20 watts np)

How efficient and economical is your swimming? Could it be that you are burning matches on the swim and that means you have to keep bike power at 78% rather than a little higher, so that you can still run? What sort of heart rate are you holding on your swim?

Former collegiate swimmer. Last race 3rd in AG swam at just over warm up pace. This was a typical result, but I trained more so it was a lower rpe (hoping I’d have more matches). Not my best place but was probably my best swim in terms of place in relation to effort. I think your idea worked already:).
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
94% of ftp for 90km and run extremely well off the bike??? please tell me more.....!!!!

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rideon77 wrote:

"Ride lots" Eddy Merckx

And push harder on the pedals.

***
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ITT I learned that I am really training all wrong

I need to incorporate 5 second and 1 minute power


And I should be able to do 90% + on half distance bike and still be able to run well
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would keep your current structure and, if possible, do a few local OD's (one every 4-5 weeks) on short taper (2-3 ez days before and 1-2 ez days after race). That would sharpen your race pace fitness
Quote Reply
Re: Path to bike improvement in triathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
desert dude wrote:
jaretj wrote:
What is muscular endurance?

OMG I have a crush on you now!

I just wanted to get it in before you did :)
Quote Reply

Prev Next