I'd hire a new guide. And start practicing.... a lot.

Truthfully, I'm kinda surprised they let legally blind athletes compete in the blind category without a guide. I have no idea what 20/200 vision is like, but it seems super dangerous to me, especially in big races.

Here is how they do it at the Paralympic's for Nordic closest thing I can think of that they have separate groups

Every one has a guide, but Canada did have a person that was a B3 and qualified for the Olympics and Paralympic's so he could see enough to ski on his own (He is a faster skiing then his guide)

In 2010 they made a bunch of rule changes to all the disabled divisions not just blind I think it was done for the 2016 Paralympic's so that the frist person to cross the finish was the winner and not have to wait for a time adjustement to figure it out

Visually Impaired
B1 No functional vision. Athletes must wear opaque
glasse to ensure they cannot see.
two skis, two poles,
opaque glasses
B2 Up to approximately 3-5% functional vision. two skis, two poles
B3 No more than 10% functional vision. two skis, two poles

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My Blog of Me

Wow, the first person with an actual proposal.

Those percentages do not fix his issue since he is 20 %.

This still goes back to what is the goal of racing. If it is the "true" winner of a race, should they be no AG's or heavy divisions, etc. and just the fastest over the line?

Or is it like HITS that every age has a winner?

So again, what is his goal to "fix"? If he wants to race without glasses he can do that today.

Now, does he want to get on the Worlds team? If so, that seems to be a totally different issue. Maybe there needs to be 100 divisions, one per each 1% lost. Now, is this both eyes, each eye, average of both?

I am not taking sides, but as an engineer, am trained to ask the 7 why's and find a solution that works. But, since no one really seems to know his REAL end goal, we can all just guess which makes us all wrong.
But logically, just seems like asking a 100% blind person to "compete" against a person with 20% sight is odd. Now, if 100% of the 100% blind athlete say they do not care and would lose their chances for a world sport, then great. But is it 20%, 40%, 80%? Where is the line and how is one line "fair" and another is "unsafe".

Just really am trying to understand how the folks who say it is not fair today would "fix" it to be 100% fair, and safe to all the folks in the worlds blind division.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The problem is that there is a legal definition of blind. Roughly translated, if your vision is less than 10% of a fully sighted person then you are blind. The difficulty is when you are in that 10% group you can have all sorts of "partial" vision. Maybe only peripheral, maybe no peripheral, maybe no colour, maybe only large shapes, maybe only gray movement, maybe you have no night vision or perhaps your eyes are super sensitive to light so you can see a bit at night but not at all in sunlight.

Trying to "equalize" the field by forcing those with a very limited amount of sight to wear glasses that further impedes them is not fair to them.

The was a time when women couldn't vote, many people worked to change the rules. The visually impaired, from what I can see (pardon the pun), see the current rule as unfair and are working to change it.

Personally I think Triathlon should embrace getting more people involved. Not at the expense of what Triathlon is but still Being inclusive. If people don't like the wetsuit rules then get them changed or live with them.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

Fair to what? What is he trying to prove? Achieve? He can race today, no one is stopping him. But, if he wants to get on a Worlds team, now that is different.

What is a "fair" category? I do not think it is "fair" to have to race against short folks who weigh a lot less. But, I sure am not out suing trying to make it "fair" to my standards.

Again, no one has answered why he is suing a RD.

So, I would never say there is an issue, unless I already had a well thought out supported solution that is better than all the others that I basically would be saying they have no idea what they are talking about and seem not to
care about being "fair" or "safe". So, what is your solution such that 100% of the folks who say they should be in the blind division 100% agree.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Since no one says he has a goal other the to have it be "fair" and "safe", just show me how he cannot do this today. He can race without glasses today so he is "fair" and "safe" to him competing against himself.
I continue to come from the opinion he has way more goals than "fair" and "safe" since it would make no sense to sue since no one has stopped him from racing. Sounds like he wants the glory to stand up and say he beat all the "blind" folks. Now, I again ask, give me a signed list of 100% of the 100% blind folks who say it is fair to race against a person with 20, or is it 30 or 40 or.. sight and I then would say I did not at all understand where he was coming from.

Triathlon does embrace anyone who wants to race. That is why if you want to wear a wetsuit over 76 in WTC, you can, but no awards. Why are not folks suing saying this is not fair?
But, for USAT, over 82, they would physically not allow you in the water with a wetsuit. But wait, this would not be "fair" and another law suit?

Just playing the other side of the coin to see if there are real solutions that answer all the questions on this topic that are better than the last group did.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Not replying specifically to h2o, just used his post for reply.

Without correction, I'm pretty much legally blind. If that were my corrected vision, I think I'd have a very distinct advantage over a completely blind athlete when it came to the run. Hell, I've run without my glasses or contacts numerous times in the past. That's definitely not the standard that should be considered. What is? Hell if I know. I do agree with h2o that no one is preventing him from racing. I lose body heat very easily. I have no problem swimming in a wetsuit in 80 degree water without overheating. No one is stopping me from wearing one and racing. Is it now unfair to me to not be able to compete for AG podiums against those that don't wear them?

Oh, now we have a real world example of common sense....jeepers man. Now you got to go and bring some first hand facts into the soiree.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I'm currently less than 20/200 (corrected) in my left eye, due to a combination of a cataract and macular edema. My right eye is currently fine (20/25 after cataract surgery) as long as I'm on medication to control the macular edema. That eye was, for a while, only seeing light/dark shapes. Fortunately the worst my vision has ever been (corrected) is 20/50 with only one useful eye - that was temporary and I could still ride a bike/run without problems. Had my vision gotten worse I would've quit riding.

In my opinion, 20/60 (best corrected), or worse, is enough to cause real safety concerns on the bike and would be sufficient to warrant special consideration for those athletes. By special consideration I mean being allowed the minimum required assistance to safely compete. If I end up losing my vision I don't see myself still trying to ride, but I may want to run and swim. Some mechanism whereby I could still compete would be nice though.

20/200 is, for some purposes, functional vision. For other purposes it's as good as blind. While I appreciate the difficulties this athlete is facing, I don't think suing helps anyone. If a new system is being drafted and he's sceptical about it, why not try to work with ITU to help see it through?

Also, if he did have such a hard time running with a blackout glasses and a guide (to the level quoted in the article) he should get a new guide and work on some body awareness (especially if his vision will worsen). Yes, it will be harder. Maybe it's not as safe for him, but is it safe? If he has a good guide and he's practiced, yes, I think so. Still, I'd rather see a partially sighted category or some sort of 'handicap' system whereby he doesn't need the glasses to race. There are better solutions, and it seems that ITU are looking to implement one. In the mean time, the rules are what they are and if we don't like the rules, we don't have to play.

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

The problem with breaking the group into partially sighted/blind or B1/B2/B3 is dilution of fields. You already have a limited number of people able to participate and breaking that group further reduces the quality of the field. There HAS to be a way to keep people of like abilities together and ITU has chosen the blackout goggles.

I want to know how many will knock out their own eye balls for a chance to race in Kona.....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

What does the plucking of eyeballs have to do with blackout googles?

Um.....lets see. I know a few guys who claim they are willing to "give their left nut" to race in Kona....I want to know if they are also willing to take out an eye ball or two....are people really that behind in sophomoric humor?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Can he race without glasses today?

Sounds like in order to race, he needs a guide for his (and our!) safety.

Are you really positive he is allowed to race now without the glasses?

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Well, the thing is, you can do damn near anything you want. Can you swim in 90F water with a wetsuit? Sure. Can you wear fins? Sure. Can you cut the run course? Well, we want Nun of that but yes. Will you be removed from the course? No - not that I have seen. So, if all he wants is the accomplishment....what is the beef? However, if he wants a trophy...well then, suddenly he has some skin in the game.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I would be really positive he could race without glasses. Get awards, etc. if the race is following the rules, I guess no.
Also depends on the level of race. If it is something like worlds or nationals, they cannot bend the rules. If it is a local race,
the RD can basically do whatever he wants. I just helped at a Adventure race where the RD let 2 gals in bikinis race for free,
and both are we still talking about them. :o)

Yep, I assume he always needs a guide, but glasses ..

I just think there are much better ways to try and work things out than get lawyers involved. That is too much in your face for me.

What really interests me is so many saying it is bad, but so few proposed solutions. I look at this for the big picture of all the stuff folks complain about the rules, and offer
no solutions or their time to try and help improve stuff.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

What?!?! Start your own league? The blind guy triathlon series? Wow. That will sell out.

This is a new rule brought in for the itu to get into the paraolympics. It is not the only option for making things fair, but the only one they looked at.

Many blind athletes, not just Aaron have been asking for change. Since they race in their own category they have a right to a voice about the rules. No different than you or I. The itu and usatri and cantri for that matter are not listening so is trying to force them too.

Maybe we should make it fair and have everyone ride a 1985 schwinn. If you happen to have better genetics we should make it fair for everyone and cut off your foot.

I gotta stop reading slowtwitch. Stupid comments like yours are driving my iq down.

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NCCP certified Comp coach

Quote:

Since they race in their own category they have a right to a voice about the rules.

And, if they do not like the rules - start their own league. What is so hard to comprehend about that? Since when does doing something as basic as following he rules been such a mind fuck that it will cause someone such as yourself to drop IQ points? The rules are very clear...

I know...I always wanted to win the Little League Baseball State Championship. They have rules about my age - but that is discriminatory. I can sue em, get me a team to play the 10-12 year olds...I am thinking that we can get something rolling here. Is age discrimination not illegal? Certainly it is....now, to find a first baseman.

Yes - the whole situation is that pathetic. He wants to race the "blind" being "less" blind than the "fully" blind, but with out the rules (chaperone) that the rest of the really "blind" have to have. But, because he is "legally" blind but he does have some "vision" he wants his own fitting rules for his own condition - to what? Finish two hours in front of the other blind guys?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I really do not care if they wear the glasses or don't, but the B/VI group cannot be subdivided. I'm not sure what other solution is fair.

And I say this as someone that went from the podium at Para World Champs to a top 5 or 6 at Worlds after a restructuring of the categories. I'm not asking for my old category back because brain injury and amputations are simply not different enough to justify being split up even though the brain injury group has been on the back foot since the rule change. We just need to train harder.

Quote:

I really do not care if they wear the glasses or don't, but the B/VI group cannot be subdivided. I'm not sure what other solution is fair.

But, if you race "blind" is it not fair that all of the "blind" people have zero vision? That seems pretty fair to me.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Some of the articles say that the blind athletes are not on board with the goggles. I think the goggles are the best solution right now, but I don't really care as long as the number of world titles for the B/VI group stays at 1.

Agreed. "Some". If I had to bet - I would say that those "some" are the guys with partial vision. People are nasty creatures, some will game the system to be "legally blind" and on race day just pop in their contacts and go have at the course.

No matter what, as with anything that has pertaining rules - not everyone will be happy.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Have you ever that he may be doing it for reasons beyond his own? He is the fastest blind athlete in our sport. some would say a role model. He is interested in making this sport accessible to more people. They aren't listening. If you notice, the amounts sued for are negligible. He wants the rule changed and not monetary gain.

If we are arguing the rule there are many different options to level the playing field that are far more fair and safe. Time bonuses are the easiest. Different amount of vision equals a different time penalty.

If you are arguing whether to sue or not, that is altogether different. He obviously feels strongly enough that his rights have been violated to do so. It is his right to sue if he wants. Isn't that the basis for your whole legal system? people have sued over less damage for more money. If this pisses you off so much you should contact him to express your opinion. I know he would love to talk about it.

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NCCP certified Comp coach

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I appreciate the problem with having a limited number of participants at most events. I'm sure that a number of people on ST have won their age group by virtue of a shallow field (25-29 and 30-34 have hardly any competitors in my local races). At those events ITU/the RD could choose to combine the categories (making it less fair, in a way), or to enforce the same level of blindness on all competitors (not as fair as it might seem). They've chosen the latter. While I think it's a viable solution, I don't necessarily think it's a good idea. However, the choice at the moment is to race under those rules or not.

The point that a lot of people have been making though is that many partially sighted and blind athletes aren't "people of like abilities". Being legally blind (20/200) is a very long way from actually being blind. While the goggles are *a* solution I still don't think they're the *best* solution. They don't create a level playing field - just the illusion of one, as partially sighted people are simply not as comfortable in total blackout as the fully blind.

Maybe the solution is to get more partially sighted athletes into triathlon? :-)

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663