specialized had more of a pro presence - and i'm guessing at a much higher overall price tag - than felt. which brand among all of them did the best for themselves in kona? seems to me felt's going pretty well for itself in pro athlete deals.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The thing I will say is that Felt seems to deliver long-term support out of the athletes they choose to partner with. Ryf's been there forever, as has Carfrae.

I am intrigued as to what measurement process some companies are using for sponsorship - whether they're trying to tie it to bottom-line financial results or if it's just considered a standard cost of doing business.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

"whether they're trying to tie it to bottom-line financial results or if it's just considered a standard cost of doing business."

Marketing is a lot more complicated and nuanced than that. But it all stems from the basic proposition of product, price, place and promote, which must address company goals, customer desires, cost, competitors and convenience, . You can break it down a lot from there, but figuring out the secret sauce that a particular company has used to approach sponsorship as a part of marketing/promotion/product budget is driven by the business case analysis. The way each of these companies arrived at the numbers of sponsored pros is a lot more in-depth than a single stat like bike count can convey.

I have to buy Felt because that was the ST name I chose years ago.

Second part has fit me so far. Then again I am not a triathlete so what do I know? :-)

Of course marketing is more complex than that. Why do you think I post here? :)

And, in a lot of instances, I think you're giving far too much nuance and perspective into some of these companies. If there's ever an industry that could use an overhaul in the analytics department...

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Yeah, interesting topic there. Felt's approach has been quite interesting in the sense that they have partnered with few pro triathletes, but all very top tier athletes. Then you look at a company like FLO that is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum and sponsors not a single pro athlete. Both companies seem to be doing quite well though.

Being able to show your value in terms of sales is really hard to do for most people, those that have figured that out seem to have a bit more negotiating power, if that is what a sponsor is wanting out of their athletes, the ability to increase sales.

In the role I have at PH, the current discussion is based on what you said above, just a matter of what that price point is. But I very much believe it is a standard cost of doing business in the triathlon market, just a matter of finding the right balance and ensuring you are getting the best ROI in who you are working with. The sponsorship/partnership model is definitely shifting within the industry.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

(Noted your profession...clearly you're beyond the basics here... :-)


"If there's ever an industry that could use an overhaul in the analytics department..."

And the turnaround....why do you think I post here. ;-)

I wholeheartedly agree. But that may finally rip away the last shibboleths of the industry, and some of those are going to die hard deaths.

and amberger.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It's really interesting to me that the newer companies tend to have a heavier focus on analytics and a more skeptical eye toward some of the traditional sponsorship models. We've also seen run companies move more quickly in this department. I think some of that simply is tied to the product life cycle being so much shorter there versus, say, cycling stuff.

There's a handful of professional triathletes that really "get" it. You're one. (Now, would you please show up to TBI while we're at it?)

In re - Dan - yeah, Amberger is another one. I was on Web Archive for a bit today and was on the Felt site from 2011 and they had a big feature up about re-signing Ryf. That's what sparked that analysis. It really does seem to be that they find a few athletes and keep them for the long haul. One notable exception from that archived site: Jan Frodeno!

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Actually the ‘customize’ options with Canyon are very limited to none compared to other brands like Orbea. For example since we talk tri here, the Speedmax comes with cranks to long and in size L and XL with extensions for most too short since they cut their Profile Design t4 5 to 6 cm shorter then original. Further there is nothing to customize on the Speedmax CF models. With Orbea Ordu you can choose colour, design your own, choose stem, crankset tooth, cranklength, rotor(powet) or shimano and wheels. At no extra cost!

So sometimes I have a feeling customizing options at Canyon are overrated...

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Once upon a time their configurator was considered best-in-class. It's been surpassed. But the reputation remains...

It's the same thing when people call Amazon a marketplace disruptor at this point. Well, no! It's just Amazon doing what Amazon does! They're just entering new verticals with the same basic idea that led them to dominate in nearly everything retail...

I almost mentioned Orbea. I have an irrational love of the Starky Ordu.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Myabe that goes for the US where they are pretty new, but that configurator, or lack off, reputation is actually going counterwise here in EU, at least at the Speedmax, because of the cranks that are quite long per size (and it does not help that Frodo at 195 cm tall is running 170's in his bike the same size as they put on their XS Speedmax) and to the shorter extensions.

We are pretty Canyon friendly and do quite a lot of fit's for people that want to buy one but when they are told that they cannot change cranks and that they need a new set of extensions because during the fit we see they are too short the love sometimes is over. Sometimes it works out fine, but in the smaller sizes the cranks are an issue and in the taller sizes in most cases the extensions are an issue except when they buy Di2 because Canyon uses the older 2 button bar end shifters and they add just a bit of extra length to the extensions.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

That's almost exactly what Ironman Foundation seemed to do:

https://hips.hearstapps.com/...w,0&resize=640:*

Thanks, TBI is on my list of things to attend, timing just hasn't been right. Hard to justify flying in from Europe for it, if/when we are US based it will be a priority to be there.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Where do you see customization on Canyon's website? I'm in Europe and don't see anything.

<pink> Of course we're talking the US. What else matters? :P </pink>

I think we wind up discussing a lot of this in US terms if only because US growth and stabilization is so critical to the overall industry. So when new distribution channels pop up here in the US, including those who were chomping at the bit to get at Canyon without the "let's order from the EU and somehow get it over here" game, you wind up in a different conversation.

I do think you have superior customization options in the D2C space - the Diamondback one was really ahead of its time (given the inventory), and QR's is excellent. That said, we still have a hurdle to overcome with the vast majority of the purchasing public - the value of fit coming first, and then determining your purchase from there. Too often we see somebody get fixated on the bike first, and then their fit on board it negates all of the positive outcomes of the improvement in the bike. Something I personally want to keep focusing in with my sphere of influence, and hopefully see it continue further beyond that over the next 18 months.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I'm not a distributor/retailer, so am happy to be talked round on this one, but in the instance of direct to customer sales it feels unnecessarily restrictive to not offer customisation on much of the above.
In my view, there should be flexibility on the following almost as standard:

Cassette ratio
Crank length
Chainring size
Derailleur cage length
Stem length (with some highly integrated exceptions)

These are all examples of items which cost the seller the same either way, but getting right can save the customer a notable amount of cash and increases the value of the bike in real terms.
Even if this was offered on a first come first served basis, or levels of flexibility were heavily dictated by what the company had managed to get their hand on, or what other customers had switched from to create that excess stock.

LOL

I am a graphic designer. This is truth.

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

For a relatively small company with a tiny marketing budget (in comparison with that marketing behemoth that sometimes turns its hand to making the odd bike, Specialized) their popularity within the sport is incredible - look at the Kona count. I am a Felt owner, on my 9th now - they are great and what I like is that they are small, smart and a bit less showy.

Throwing $100k+ at frodeno wont necessarily find you $100k+ more in retained profit. The history they have in the sport should count for something too. Jim being one of the few guys who worked on that scott aerobar set up that got the whole ball rolling. Paula Newby Fraser being their first pro I think, Jim built her a bike from scratch - seemed to work out pretty well.

Who would you sign if you were Felt?

Didnt Frodo and Mrs Frodo win Beijing both on Felts? Jan an AR and Emma a ZW?

I think that right now is hard to sign someone who is already at the top of its game or up and coming... but perhaps can do something cool and built the Felt Junior Academy or something, similar to what Red Bull has in motorsports.

By doing that you are capturing athletes at the beginning / start of their path into a PRO career. I think this happened with Ryf as she’s been a Felt athlete since 2009.

This way you don’t spend crazy dollars in sponsorship but can have a good future in terms of great athletes.

Just a thought.

When I bought my first tri bike my position was all fucked, wasn't holding a good cadence let alone knew what power was. I just wanted to do triathlon because I was a competitive athlete and the "boss" said let's do this and I just dove in.

Maybe this is my experience, but I don't believe the bike selling industry gives a shit about fit. When I bought my Giant Trinity there was no discussion about fit at the store. Most cycling stores that also sell tri bikes know fuckall about "fit". I went to a guy a couple months later who didn't use Retul, did do video analysis though so I saw before and after but got no x/y. Position was a lot better.

So after reading a lot of Dan's articles and the forum I set out to get a Fit for my replacement bike. Spent a chunk of change on this but such is life and I feel good about it completely. I looked around in Phoenix for places that had a fit bike, whether it was RETUL or FIST. I'd say the database on the site here is crazy out of date...but my bigger issue is that Tri-Shops are their getting rid of their fit bikes. Originally when I had looked at getting a new fit before my Trinity got wrecked I was going to go to Tribe Multisport because they were cheaper by $100 than Moxie. Well...when I called around to 10ish shops around the valley only Cyclologic and Moxie had fitbikes. Went to Moxie and can't be happier about the service I've gotten. Did my fitting on my bike the other day and pick up the E-119 next week.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Moxie does good work. Met them out at TBI last year.

This is part of the underlying problem - I think there are certain shops that are deciding that "well, that fit bike is just collecting dust and the consumer isn't asking for it, might as well sell it for cash." But then we (collective we as an industry) don't do a good enough job educating the consumer how important fit is to determining the right bike. We do a good job at saying that fit is important. We don't do a good enough job in both describing the process and tools involved (exception: Dan) and we don't do a good enough job getting that content to the right audience (which, shame on me, as I help drive the social media bus around here).

That's my focus now - getting that content to stop people in their tracks to make them change the consideration method of their purchasing decision - whether that purchasing decision is new at retail, new via D2C, or some used bike - and make their experience better.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

jayski wrote:

Didnt Frodo and Mrs Frodo win Beijing both on Felts? Jan an AR and Emma a ZW?

Kristin Armstrong won Olympic with Felt bike as well.

https://feltbicycles.com/blogs/news/the-greatest-olympic-time-trialist-ever-kristin-armstrong-wins-third-gold-medal