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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [rucker] [ In reply to ]
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rucker wrote:

There's a whole world of impressive athletes out there, and a lot of folks on ST hate acknowledging the existence of true athletic talent ("I could never do that - there's no way anyone could!").

That is not just here on ST but in the triathlon community in general because there is this ongoing narrative that somehow all Ironman triathlete are one step away from being superheroes.If you look at Nick Bares general training history and his years of consistent workload then moving to Ironman and knocking out an 11:28 at the end of a focussed training block is not really that amazing.Yes he carried a lot of muscle mass into the event but it is most likely that muscle mass which gave him the strength to hold it all together on the day and not end up doing the slow Ironman shuffle while crying into his Gatorade from mile 10.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still confused about this 'muscle strength' thing translating into terms like "Yes he carried a lot of muscle mass into the event but it is most likely that muscle mass which gave him the strength to hold it all together on the day and not end up doing the slow Ironman shuffle while crying into his Gatorade from mile 10."

As far as I understand, the ability to go ironman-long and slow is almost entirely a feature of endurance. Having bulky muscles, even a little bit of bulk, is detrimental to that.

I've heard coaches throwing around the concepts of strength training so you can 'last the distance' at racing such as IM, but aside from a last-second burst of speed, I'm not understanding how all that short-rep strength and muscle bulk does anything whatsoever for the IM endgame shuffle.

(I understand how it would be super helpful for the end sprints in short or even long tris - just watching the Brownlees get smoked beyond belief in a track sprint on that old TV show by the boxer was enough proof of that!)
Last edited by: lightheir: May 7, 20 15:15
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I'm still confused about this 'muscle strength' thing translating into terms like "Yes he carried a lot of muscle mass into the event but it is most likely that muscle mass which gave him the strength to hold it all together on the day and not end up doing the slow Ironman shuffle while crying into his Gatorade from mile 10."

As far as I understand, the ability to go ironman-long and slow is almost entirely a feature of endurance. Having bulky muscles, even a little bit of bulk, is detrimental to that.

I've heard coaches throwing around the concepts of strength training so you can 'last the distance' at racing such as IM, but aside from a last-second burst of speed, I'm not understanding how all that short-rep strength and muscle bulk does anything whatsoever for the IM endgame shuffle.

(I understand how it would be super helpful for the end sprints in short or even long tris - just watching the Brownlees get smoked beyond belief in a track sprint on that old TV show by the boxer was enough proof of that!)
..

Yes,having bulky muscles will affect performance in endurance sport and that is most likely why Nick Bare went 11:28 and not 10:28 or faster.Lets not forget that he raced Ironman Florida which is flat so he really only had to "fight" his weight on the run.If he had raced on a hilly course he would most likely have been much,much slower.

Holding your form while at the back end of an Ironman is important to successful performance and that is why athletes continue to add "strength training" to their programs .It is the ongoing debate over definitions and what constitutes endurance strength training that is the centre of all the debates (especially here on ST).

If you look at Nick's split times for that race,again a flat one,you will see that they are not that amazing..
Swim: 1:17:57
Bike: 5:48:23
Run: 4:04:53
+ transitions..
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Imagine what Slowtwitch would have been like when Armstrong landed on the moon... "its really not that special, I know a guy who flew to Mars on a hang glider, and held his breath the whole way"...

The amount of 1-uppers on this site is crazy. Everyone’s a ceo banging 10s
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [rucker] [ In reply to ]
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haha... in my 20th year in the Army I took my final PT test and maxed and PR'ed the run... 10:40. Came back into the office and started talking to my old E7 and we got to talking and eventually I pulled it out of him that he did a 9:30 at Basic or AIT or something.

There's always someone faster.

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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [Hollywood_USAF] [ In reply to ]
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Hollywood_USAF wrote:
dunno wrote:
Imagine what Slowtwitch would have been like when Armstrong landed on the moon... "its really not that special, I know a guy who flew to Mars on a hang glider, and held his breath the whole way"...


The amount of 1-uppers on this site is crazy. Everyone’s a ceo banging 10s

I don't think it is that, I think this a fantastic effort, but genuinely just not that impressive.

In my view, people on this forum greatly over emphasise the important of weight for non-competitive age groupers, probably because they are naturally smaller or at the sharp end of their age group.

I became interested in the idea of doing a Ironman, I was muscular and 210 pounds at 6ft 3.5, had never done a triathlon, had just bought a road bike, had never swum OW, had never run more than a half marathon. I downloaded a plan off the internet, read some books, spoke to people I knew were quick, committed to training and prepared diligently. I did some halfs for practice (4:51 and 4:45) and ended up doing a 10.35 in Italy on a road bike with clip ons.

Now I have some experience, I'm slightly lighter, I've got a TT bike, I'll be aiming to get to the sharper end of my age group. But I still see strength and height as an asset as opposed to a hindrance and it is probably one of the factors allowing me to be strong on the bike and quickly get up to a 357 FTP which is still rising. I know on the run it is a different story.

Once you take away the weight element of Nick's story, you have a guy who is new to Triathlon doing a 11:28, a great effort, but not spectacular.

I recognise this post might come across as massively self indulgent but hopefully that background illustrates my point.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [PJH] [ In reply to ]
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PJH wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
dunno wrote:
Imagine what Slowtwitch would have been like when Armstrong landed on the moon... "its really not that special, I know a guy who flew to Mars on a hang glider, and held his breath the whole way"...


The amount of 1-uppers on this site is crazy. Everyone’s a ceo banging 10s

I don't think it is that, I think this a fantastic effort, but genuinely just not that impressive.

In my view, people on this forum greatly over emphasise the important of weight for non-competitive age groupers, probably because they are naturally smaller or at the sharp end of their age group.

I became interested in the idea of doing a Ironman, I was muscular and 210 pounds at 6ft 3.5, had never done a triathlon, had just bought a road bike, had never swum OW, had never run more than a half marathon. I downloaded a plan off the internet, read some books, spoke to people I knew were quick, committed to training and prepared diligently. I did some halfs for practice (4:51 and 4:45) and ended up doing a 10.35 in Italy on a road bike with clip ons.

Now I have some experience, I'm slightly lighter, I've got a TT bike, I'll be aiming to get to the sharper end of my age group. But I still see strength and height as an asset as opposed to a hindrance and it is probably one of the factors allowing me to be strong on the bike and quickly get up to a 357 FTP which is still rising. I know on the run it is a different story.

Once you take away the weight element of Nick's story, you have a guy who is new to Triathlon doing a 11:28, a great effort, but not spectacular.

I recognise this post might come across as massively self indulgent but hopefully that background illustrates my point.

The irony of this post.... Oh my lordy
..
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
PJH wrote:
Hollywood_USAF wrote:
dunno wrote:
Imagine what Slowtwitch would have been like when Armstrong landed on the moon... "its really not that special, I know a guy who flew to Mars on a hang glider, and held his breath the whole way"...


The amount of 1-uppers on this site is crazy. Everyone’s a ceo banging 10s


I don't think it is that, I think this a fantastic effort, but genuinely just not that impressive.

In my view, people on this forum greatly over emphasise the important of weight for non-competitive age groupers, probably because they are naturally smaller or at the sharp end of their age group.

I became interested in the idea of doing a Ironman, I was muscular and 210 pounds at 6ft 3.5, had never done a triathlon, had just bought a road bike, had never swum OW, had never run more than a half marathon. I downloaded a plan off the internet, read some books, spoke to people I knew were quick, committed to training and prepared diligently. I did some halfs for practice (4:51 and 4:45) and ended up doing a 10.35 in Italy on a road bike with clip ons.

Now I have some experience, I'm slightly lighter, I've got a TT bike, I'll be aiming to get to the sharper end of my age group. But I still see strength and height as an asset as opposed to a hindrance and it is probably one of the factors allowing me to be strong on the bike and quickly get up to a 357 FTP which is still rising. I know on the run it is a different story.

Once you take away the weight element of Nick's story, you have a guy who is new to Triathlon doing a 11:28, a great effort, but not spectacular.

I recognise this post might come across as massively self indulgent but hopefully that background illustrates my point.


The irony of this post.... Oh my lordy
..

It wasn't lost on me, refer to the final sentence. My point still stands......
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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One interesting point is that Nick Bare never said he finished fast. Never even bragged about finishing.

He just made a video journal of his training and the race.

Typical ST going on the attack on a guy. At least he wasn't using fins.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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He just ran a sub 3 hour marathon
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty, pretty, pretty good.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Time? Was it an official sanction race?


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [Consultri] [ In reply to ]
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Consultri wrote:
I started following Nick Bare when Triathlon Taren mentioned him in a video. I gotta say, I was hugely skeptical of this guy's chances of completing an Ironman but after watching his training series on his YouTube channel and seeing this results, I'm blown away.

He could barely swim in June, bought an entry level tri-bike and didn't even know how to change a tire, but followed his training plan religiously and showed up ready. Anyone else impressed by this? Reminds me what really matters, consistency and fortitude.

Given, the conditions at IMFL were pretty favorable, still a huge accomplishment to go under 12 hours in your first triathlon.

I have to say I’m not.

I'm a MOP athlete, my first year of any sport was 2007. I was running from January, bought the bike in May, ran a M in June, did an Oly July, HIM in August and two weeks after that my first IM in 11:18

No heart rate or power, no training plans, just training for enjoyment.

I then took over ten years to beat that time despite having loads of gear, training plans and tools.

Far too much is made of the distance and training / equipment requirements.

If you’re just active and healthy, you’ll do ok.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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No, its a course he set up, largely down hill, we don't know for sure if it was the distance
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
No, its a course he set up, largely down hill, we don't know for sure if it was the distance

Do we know it was largely downhill? I would have expected a 4x10km course kind of thing?
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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lassekk wrote:
stevie g wrote:
No, its a course he set up, largely down hill, we don't know for sure if it was the distance

Do we know it was largely downhill? I would have expected a 4x10km course kind of thing?

It wasn’t largely downhill. It’s on strava. Net 50 feet downhill. It does look like most of the downhill was in the second half of the race. That was smart.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly unsurprised at his running ability. He was an Infantry Officer and a Ranger School Graduate. I was an Armor [Cavalry] Officer, and the amount of running I did was a lot. The amount of running the Infantry tends to do, even in an Armored Infantry unit is A LOT to BIZARRE.

EricMPro and I have talked about this a bunch on the board. The guy has YEARS of running stimulus in his body.

Also, looking at his rig now, he's downsized significantly. He may look huge, but he's just shredded. Which takes a lot of work. But it's great marketing for his supplement company.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Last edited by: TheStroBro: Feb 4, 21 7:59
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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he did it in the nike % bounce shoes. for lightweight runner maybe makes someone 5-10 min faster in marathon. for heavy runner like him prevents more degradation, making him 20 min faster. He is a 3:15 guy, which is still a good effort.

i came from the world of powerlifting. these shoes are akin do the bench press shirt days. where the records broke over 1000lb, yet unassisted bench press stuck at 700ish for decades.

what the powerlifting world did is make different categories.... raw, equipped, tested/untested.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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we get it. you dont like the nike shoes. horse has been dead for a long time

give it a rest
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have skin in this game one way or another, but I checked the course after he completed it.

It was an official "race" and was USATF certified, TX21008LAB

https://www.certifiedroadraces.com/...e/?type=m&id=760
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [c.mont.811] [ In reply to ]
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c.mont.811 wrote:
I don't have skin in this game one way or another, but I checked the course after he completed it.

It was an official "race" and was USATF certified, TX21008LAB

https://www.certifiedroadraces.com/...e/?type=m&id=760

you can run a certified course, but if its not sanctioned result doesnt count for certain things (records, boston maybe real lax on this)
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
he did it in the nike % bounce shoes. for lightweight runner maybe makes someone 5-10 min faster in marathon. for heavy runner like him prevents more degradation, making him 20 min faster. He is a 3:15 guy, which is still a good effort.

i came from the world of powerlifting. these shoes are akin do the bench press shirt days. where the records broke over 1000lb, yet unassisted bench press stuck at 700ish for decades.

what the powerlifting world did is make different categories.... raw, equipped, tested/untested.

There’s zero science that states the shoes improve running economy to the tune of 11% which is what you’re suggesting with those numbers.

And the original 4% was not 4% more than other shoes on the market either it was a couple of percentages over other current racers.

But I’m sure you know this.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
he did it in the nike % bounce shoes. for lightweight runner maybe makes someone 5-10 min faster in marathon. for heavy runner like him prevents more degradation, making him 20 min faster. He is a 3:15 guy, which is still a good effort.
Please post several results of runners who dropped their PR from 3:15 to 2:56 by wearing Vaporflys.

Thanks. I'll wait.
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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What's your PR for running to your computer any time you hear someone did anything in Vaporfly's?

If you ran in Vaporfly's, I bet you could get there faster. ;)
Last edited by: ntl_tri: Feb 4, 21 10:16
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Re: Nick Bare goes 11:28 @ IMFL in first IM with no background in swimming or biking [ntl_tri] [ In reply to ]
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So he actually just did a fair effort on a fair course, and people might be a bit jealous he can do it, have a multimillion dollar company too. Basically just living the dream.
He has that elite .entality dedication to succeed.
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