Congrats on the 2:30 ride. That is awesome. For me it turnd out to be 2:41 ride time off 225 NP. On the steeper climbs, it would go up to 300W and I would dial it back to 275 W or so, which is around 105% FTP for me. My ride was at 3.6W per kilo (NP). I think for the Ironman for me, aside from the first few hills it would not be possible to ride it that "surgy" and certainly at the end of the second loop doing anything at 105-110% FTP in short surges would be a non option. I'd probable end up riding most of the climbs at half IM effort and coast down at zero watts.

I do think that for lighter athletes the general guidelines about consistent power on a bump course is bad. We have an advantage on climbs and disadvantage on descents, so better to use our watts where they make a good impact and then recover at zero watts. Zero watt recovery on a sawtooth course is gold.

In terms of run course, I am not sure if this course is any harder than Tremblant. Tremblant is very deceptive in terms of aggregate hills. The first 5K has a lot of gradual uphill and the bike path/old train track is a continuous uphill one way and downhill the other way. There is around half of the race that is shaded. I think the Muskoka race offers much more variety on the run course than Tremblant (I personally find the bike path mind numbing, but that's a personal thing). As a point of reference, I ran 1:39 in Muskoka and 1:40 in Tremblant and had a much better run in Muskoka. Sanders ran 1:11 in Tremblant and 1:15 in Muskoka and said his legs were off in Muskoka. So I suppose you are probably right that Muskoka is harder. I don't know how much harder though. I THINK it FEELS harder because of the Muskoka half IM bike...however, the Muskoka full IM bike will be easier (Tremblant full IM is double the difficulty of the half, Muskoka Full IM bike may only be 190% the 70.3...this should make a diff on the relative perceptions of the runs ). Plus in Tremblant there are a ton of people drafting in massive packs which makes the run easier. In Muskoka very few will be drafting.

I was in the 3rd AG (M40-44) wave at 7:15. I didn't any drafting that I would complain about either but the guy I was talking to was in my AG, so I guess the officials saw something.

As to the exchange in Dwight... here's what I would like: It's very early in the race (15km?) and I didn't need an exchange. Can we torch the yellow line rule through that section and make the left side a 'bypass' route for those that don't need anything? At the very least, knowing that there is no DQ in the cards for riding left would simplify things a lot. FWIW, while I was trying to stay upright and not crash into the guy in front of me, two riders went past on the other side of yellow. Unless I missed something in the race guide, those should have been instant DQs.

I've raced this course before in 2010/11 and I don't remember that exchange in Dwight. Has it always been there, or was it a dry run for the IM in August where I expect it will be more necessary?

This was the only part of the whole day that I thought could be improved on organizationally, and I'm not really fixated on it. It's a wonderful race and is exactly as advertised - a tough as nails course that will always stand out. I had my best day ever at this distance, with probably my best power-paced bike leg yet.

Cheers!

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Munq

Hey Dev,
congrats on the great result.


I was in the 18-24 wave and came out with some of the purple wave on the bike. I was sticking to my wattage plan (for once) and letting those who wanted to push go ahead.

10-15km in and a group of 8 people seemed to constantly want to stick behind and catch the draft. It was driving me nuts!! 3 of us ended up working together(legally, even confirmed the distance with the official who seemed to stay with us for over 30 minutes). As soon as the official left, we had two others come and draft as if they were in a road bike group ride. It was beyond frustrating!!!

Ended up running with one of the guys who drafted most of the ride and his comment was "why did you guys punch the hills at the end!? It was nice until then!"........what a joke.

Anyways...great weekend, weather, and result:)

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Ryan

I was 2:28 on the bike with 253w, 257NP. I found it mentally tough to keep this up and it seemed it was big ring, small ring, big ring, small ring forever. If you'd asked me what my average speed was (I don't show it on my Garmin) I would have said 35kph, not 38kph.

I did think, "this might be quite pleasant at 225-230w" in the full.

I really like the run, except for the "horse shoe" coming straight out of deerhurst which was bad on the way out and evil on the way back. Doing that twice will be tough.

The water aid stations left quite a bit to be desired and I will 100% carry water with me in the full. Sometimes a cup had 1cm in it or 7cm and never were two cups available to grab at once which I think is normally typical.

I was 4:34 in the half and if x2 + 20 holds up I will gladly take it, but I am more thinking x2 + 40-50 in the full on a hot day.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

I was out in the 40-44 age group and while no where near the speed of you guys started my run just as Lionel was finishing. I saw no real drafting throughout the race however it was very frustrating to deal with the amount of blocking that was going on. On at least 4 occasions I had to brake heavily downhill because of someone riding tentatively downhill too far left without anyone to the right. Options only are cross centre (nope), pass on right (nope), or brake. Obviously the only thing you can do is brake. Realize it is harder to police for officials because it happens and its gone rather than a drafting train that continues for a while. Don't know how to solve that one other than education. Maybe the rolling start for the full will help.

We were pretty close to each other. I passed Lionel going the other way just as I got out the Deerhurst parking lot. Maybe 500m into the run?

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Munq

I was 2:28 as well on 250W, 263NP. Your lower VI was very clear from your riding style after you passed me back around halfway. You would get a 30-40m lead on me on the flats and then I would close to 15m on the hills and ease up so I wasn't forced to surge past you. That must have happened 5x on the highway before you got 100-200m ahead. I need to work on my "following at a legal distance" skills :).

I convinced myself that this yo-yoing was because you must be heavier than me, but your data shows that you were simply a more patient, measured rider. Considering what happened on the run, I think you got it right :).

Great racing with you.

Mike

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

Ken, Mike any chance you guys can share links to your files on this thread, so people can see some of this for reference?

My higher VI definitely hurt me out there on the run. Both quads locked up like vice grips. It was a great learning experience to race on that type of saw tooth terrain. You have to be very measured with your riding approach to keep your avg and Normalized power close. I ended up running a 132 but was aiming for a 126 despite starting the run feeling pretty fresh. I agree with the run aid stations - we need more cups of water and Gatorade.

http://tpks.ws/CIot


This was the first time that I had a cyclist near me for pretty much the whole bike ride. Thankfully we had quite different styles so we were never in each other's way.


It was fun riding and running with you Mike. It makes for a more fun less solitary experience.


Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

As another data point, I was 2:31 on 228/240W AP/NP. Saw just one "group" of guys together but I passed them in Dorset on the uphill out of town so it was hard to see if it had been legal or not, and that climb seemed to be breaking them up :). In any case, love that bike course/race! Even in a "group", the benefit would be a lot less than most bike courses out there these days.

A couple of 2:28s on this thread. Those are some smoking fast rides...nice work!

Thanks for sharing your file. I am really impressed with your overall ride and amazed at such a low VI. Is VI a number you watch during your ride; or what numbers do you follow?

I don't look at VI while riding but I do pride myself on keeping it low while racing. To be honest I thought it would be higher after the race and was pleased to see it so low.

I think I'm more patient than most racers, I don't get out of the saddle unless it's just to relieve my butt. I rarely if ever go past my FTP and I hold the same power climbing up and over a climb until I can't pedal past 105rpm on the downhill...then I coast with my hands on the bull horns. I like to race at the low end of suggested power based on FTP. I like 80% rather than 85% because I really feel better while running with the lower power.

I have one screen setup on my Garmin 500 and all it has is lap time, lap power, power 3s, cadence. I press the lap button after each gel I take and I try and take them every 18 minutes with plain water.

Pretty much every racing and nutrition strategy I have came from NRG Performance Training out of Toronto. Before meeting Nigel, Fiona and his team I would regularly blow up. Despite training with them for so long my swim still sucks though...

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

http://tpks.ws/FfNO


Rare opportunity for me as well, especially to observe a 1.02 VI ride, live and in action on that course. It was like seeing a unicorn!

Definitely a lot of fun riding and running with you. You continued to be a source of motivation for me after you dropped me on the run too. I grinded away telling myself "just don't let him get the 5min back". At least until 16km when it became "just keep things vertical" :).

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

My wife and I had a great time coming to Muskoka to give it a try. The bike course is very challenging. We try to train on hills in NE Wisconsin as much as we can.
But they do not keep coming at you like this ride. The run was nice going into town and back. Could have used a little breeze at that point. Otherwise the weather was perfect.
It was my wife's birthday, so after I caught her on the bike, we stayed to together through the race and crossed together.
The people we met over the weekend were great. Caught a little of the tub races Sat. afternoon. Stayed at Hidden Valley, which was a good little wake up walk over race morning.
There were 4 of us from Green Bay competing. The other 2 women will be back for double the fun (sarcasm) in August.
We'll recommend Muskoka 70.3 to others from our club, Green Bay Multisport.

It was a good day, EH!

Toolmaker, I believe I met you and you wife when you first arrived at hidden valley. Glad to hear you had a great time and enjoyed the course. It was a challenging day that ended with a hot run. Definitely a well organized and executed event. Looking forward to the full. Wish your friends all the best.

All you guys talking about the full IM at Muskoka are making me feel left out of the party! Glad you guys have enjoyed the time in Muskoka so far. It really is one of my favourite tri destinations. As I said in my first post, my first racing there was as early as 1990. My son learned to walk at the Hidden Valley resort in 1997 too, so the entire place has some special connection for us.

You guys that actually raced probably didn't even notice, but this was pretty fun seconds before the first wave of amateurs arrived at the swim exit. Looks like the inflating device died or lost power and the whole thing deflated very rapidly. The volunteers handled it like pros, with one of them acting as a support pillar until they could undo the ropes and cram the thing to the side.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Nice ride and thanks for sharing the file. I am surprised that people are saying the run is not too brutal, because 2000ft(for the IM) is a ton. Did you have a file on the run?

Also, at 3.4 w/kg did you need anything more than 39x27, or are the hills not too stiff?

http://tpks.ws/KsiE

Aside from the last hill on Canal where I started to cramp quite badly and didn't have access to enough water to take salt, I thought the run was actually really nice. My legs felt amazing the whole way and if i hadn't cramped might have gone a little faster.

I forgot to mention that I run a compact crankset with an 11-25 rear cassette. I've used this setup for at least 6 years and really don't see the point of anything bigger. This setup has got me around a 2:10 bike split on a flat course and is perfect for Muskoka.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

My 2 cents is that this run course is easier than IMLP, on par with Tremblant, and easier than Kona. Ken, do you agree?

IMLP was my first around 6 years ago. It was a s**t show and I walked at least half the course.

Too be honest I would say based on how I felt, it was really fair. At no point aside from the last 2-3km did I feel like I was being abused and I think you feel like that no matter what in a 4-5 hour race.

If the full is just 2x the Muskoka 70.3 run then pacing through to 25km will be extra critical. Running from Hwy 60 back to Deerhurst then back to Hwy 60 will be a crazy 5km stretch.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Can anyone confirm the on course nutrition? G2 or regular Gatorade

It was G in twist top bottles. But was the gatorade supposed to be sealed? I know the water I got wasn't but my gatorade still had the seal on it. It was quite tricky to rip off the plastic/paper seal then screw back on the cap to get a drink all while in aero...

I lost both my nutrition bottles on the rough section so I used the on course gatorade. I grabbed a bottle at aid station 1 and 2... Both were unsealed. You must have got a rookie volunteer.