I like your optimism :-)

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

What are you referring to when you say ankle band?? Is it a swim resistance training tool??

Thanks,

Jamie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXgRyc6r1U

Part (but far from all) of the point of it is to eliminate over-reliance on expending kick energy to keep the legs up. You have to improve your body position without the kick with it, or you'll sink.

To my surprise, it has been by far the most useful tool for me to acquire the smoothness of the swim stroke that better swimmers invariably have. (I'm an adult-onset swimmer.) Meaning, that if you look at most beginners/intermediate swimmers, even some decently fast ones, there's a lot of extra bobbing motions in the vertical plane. Might be the head, the arms, the torso, and ESPECIALLY the kick. When you use the ankle band, since you can't offset any bobbing with an errant kick, it essentially magnifies any extra vertical-plane motion to the point that you can't even swim anymore. Once you learn to really quiet the extra motion in that vertical plane, the ankle band suddenly becomes totall doable. The real killer for most beginner/intermediate swimmers with the band is the breathing - that head goes up for air, and the legs start sinking, and then 2 cycles later, they're upright. It's also not as easy as burying the head - you bury the head too much, and your stroke will get all screwy with the band.

There was no coach that could teach me this smoothness, but my before/after band capability swim times and video really showed a big improvement, largely due to the smoothness factor.

I figure if it is a an Ironman swim and the talk is wetsuit or no wetsuit, my buddy Barry would have been commenting here.

Hey Barry, just because it is 76 now, it does not mean it will be over 76 by race day. Keep in mind that the nights are getting longer (which makes a big difference) and the nights can easily be cool.

Personally, I want the water to be 80F and no wetsuit, or 74 and wetsuit. The "in between sucks"...74-76 with wetsuit gets a bit hot. 76-79 in no wetsuit at Ironman intensity and I'm freezing over. The good news is that with the rolling start, no need to be treading water without wetsuit in freezing cold water dropping your core temp even before it starts....and before some of you guys say that 76F is fine without wetsuit, it may be depending on how what your body fat percent is and what your overall size is, but it is darn cold for smaller athletes with low body fat.

I'd be totally cool with 80F and no wetsuit. Like Kalber, my overall position probably won't change at all either way, unless it is no wetsuit at 76F. Then I will be hypothermic exiting the water. If we have cold rain on the bike on top of that, I'll probably never warm up.

Thanks

I think wet suits should be banned above 70 degrees. And even then... If the swim makes you anxious or you don't think you can handle it without a wetsuit you need to quit fooling yourself and swim more. Five days a week if that's what it takes. Look into masters swimming or a dedicated swim coach if you're still not getting anywhere. The wetsuit reliance that plagues some triathletes is ridiculous. If you couldn't head out on your bike without falling over, what would you do? Put training wheels on?

I spent years swimming with some very talented and not so talented swimmers. That includes a lot of dedicated athletes who were never going to be fast, but any one of them could hop in the water make the iron distance swim without batting an eye.

Don't believe the temps either. I looked at the dock thermometer last week and it said 80 ...NO WAY the water was 80 maybe 68 -69 no higher and it was raining like crazy which should lower the temps

Hey, all you guys who don't get cold always pull this "it should be banned above 70, or 72" or some other low number. We all have different body types. It would be like me saying, "they should ban aid stations on the run unless the temp climbs above 90F". Seriously, I could literally get by in a half IM with zero liquid in 70F because I don't generate much heat and hardly sweat. But just because I do well in the heat, does not mean that everyone should suffer.

For the record, I agree with the 5x per week swimming. When I did, I swam IM's in 56 minutes (was also a lot younger). But just because some of us need wetsuits in 70F for cold does not mean we cannot swim. Well, these days, you can say I cannot swim, as I am swimming more like 65 min, but that's an entirely different discussion and more related to neck injuries and lack of mobility.

I think people who don't know WTF they are talking about, should stop talking.
When wetsuits were not allowed for LP in '11, I, like the majority of those who went w/o, spent a half hour before the race stading around and shivering.
I was cold for the entire swim (being cold was the least horrible part of it), and it took me :30 mins of vigorous biking to finally shop my teeth from chattering.

Given that I'm a Kona finisher (and got thru the non-wetsuit CF at LP), it is evident that I can indeed make the iron distance swim sans wettie.
(it just takes me a lot longer than my normal, lame swim splits)

Kona was a lovely swim, I really enjoyed it.
LP was the worst experience of my entire multisport career.

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float , hammer , and jog

Why were you not wearing a sweatshirt for that half hour? You could have pulled it off at the last minute and tossed it on the beach. Really there is no reason you should have been standing around getting cold before the start.

BrokenSpoke

Yet, that's exactly what 100% of the non-wetsuit folks did.
I guess when it's officially "too warm for wetsuits" one doesn't expect to freeze their asses off standing around?
We needed a genius like you there, obviously.

Most of them got in the water well before the start also - I waited until just a few mins before the gun went off.

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float , hammer , and jog

I find Dev's quote below something to really think about.


"Seriously, I could literally get by in a half IM with zero liquid in 70F because I don't generate much heat and hardly sweat."

I mean, I am 6' 4", 195 lbs., 14.5% body fat of Northern European heritage. I am a MOP type guy with an occasional IM finish approaching the top quartile. On a 75 degree day with moderate humidity, I will loose 5 lbs. an hour running. I have found that an Ironman at 80 degrees (i.e. last years IMLP) adds 1.5 hours to my finishing time versus a comparable Ironman in 65 degree weather. The colder the better.

A half IM at 70F would lead to a 10 pound weight loss 2/3 of the way through the bike. Needing NO liquid to finish just boggles my mind.

Here is the reply I got from the organizers at IMLP:

"We are allowing for self seeding this year with the rolling start.
If temp is above 77, wetsuit athletes will start at the back. Should alleviate issues from 2011."

I'd really hate to be one of the last, I. E. slowest, non-wetsuited folks to get in and see the fastest wet suited folks poised directly behind me ready to hammer the swim. Kind of like starting the fastest wave immediately after the slowest wave if there is no separation built in.

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I agree. There should be a separation between the non wetsuit race and the wetsuit participation tour if the water is above 76. I called the westuit option a tour if it is above 76 because those who have chosen that option decided to "Not race".

Also, not that it matters to me since I have a Kona slot, but slot distribution needs to be calculated based on non wetsuit racers only, and not include the touring group. As I worked in the past with WTC to create the separation between wetsuit and non wetsuit athletes, I'll call them in the next week to emphasize these points.

Dev

Dev,

How dare you accuse me of 'not racing'! Do you think that the only reason to show up to a WTC event is for a Kona slot or to 'race' against gifted athletes such as yourself? I 'race' against myself, MY past IM times, and MY goals - not yours, not STs, nobody. My $ that I paid to race MY race is just as good as your $ for your race. Sure, I had years when my goal was a KQ - but those years are behind me. I should, however, still be permitted and encouraged to race the race I would like to - within the rules established at the time I paid my race fee.

I call Bullshit on the whiners against wetsuits. A-hole swimmers are A-hole swimmers if they wear a wetsuit or not they have the mentality to swim over you. (For what it's worth, my decsion is not based on the wetsuit as a crutch - it's based on a medical concern in which the wetsuit assists with an injury keeping my scapula compressed for that swim length. I have to choose between potential overheating or potential re-injury to the shoulder. That should be my race-day choice within the current WTC rule-book of water temps.)


I had no probelm with the rolling start annoucement AFTER I paid my non-refundable race fee. But change the rules again to say if I chose to wear wetsuit I will be placed in the back of the pack? How does that concern my safety (and the safety of the slower swimmers ) as I (we) face the dangers of swimming through a hoard of zig-zag swimmers who can't site because many will be breathing to the left on a clockwise course? How is that concerned with safety (for myself and my fellow racers) as I then battle the throngs of riders that I'll need to pass on the bike course?

Is there really a 'choice' to wear a wetsuit when facing those safety concerns?

If they want a rolling start - make it a rolling start. It won't be a 2011 because they have grouped racers of relative similar ability and time in the gates. Just like 2011, set up two arches at the start - one w/out wetsuit and one with - that will delineate the KQ/age group division from the other 'racers'. Most importantly this offers the best safety solution for the slower swimmers.


Best wishes on you race. /Not in pink

Andy

We need a water temperature update to continue with the freak out.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Let me clarify a few points:

1. If it is no wetsuit and you chose to wear one, you are no longer in the race with others. You are just competing against yourself, not for awards. This means it is OK if you are separated from those who chose to race others under the no wetsuit option (and it is an option, you really don't have to take it). Sorry, you can't have our cake and eat it to
2. There are many good reasons to enter an event. One of them is racing others, another is competing with yourself. It is a free world and you can choose which one you want to be in. Nothing wrong with selecting the latter. A few years ago, I had two athletes with the same dilemma. One chose the no wetsuit race because he wanted to measure himself head to head with the top guys in his age group and had no hope for Kona, but he did not care. He wanted to measure against the top guys. I had another one, who was just outside of a Kona slot, but he did not care about a Kona slot. He trained for a wetsuit swim and wanted the fastest time for HIM. I told the former to race no wetsuit, the latter with. The latter was the stronger athlete, but it was a case of personal priority
3. As for the word "gifted", let's steer clear of that nomenclature. I'd prefer if you said, "the races is not just for people that train their asses off for 800+ hours per year for 25 years" That has nothing to do with gifted.
4. People tend to be greater assholes when they are anonymous than when they can be identified. People who are pedestrians are nice because pedestians can identify each other, and they can literally lean over and punch each other....we behave. Once they are anonymous in cars they behave like jerks. Here on the internet, we have the same deal. When people are in wetsuits they behave more like when in cars or on the internet. That's just the way we are. When we know we are accountable for our behavior we behave better in public. I don't really care what people are like. I just want them to behave.
5. I don't have an issue with guys in wetsuits swimming over my back (well I do, but I will survive). I do have an issue with some of you testosterone pumped guys (I use you in the global sense because I am sure you specifically are a gentleman in the water) swimming over the backs of small women or 60-75 year old men vying for Kona slots. They deserve a fair competion, and I'm looking out for them, not those of you who choose to wear wetsuits when they say that you're no longer part of the competiton. The people who sign up for the competition and choose not to wear wetsuits deserve slightly more privilege....and sorry if that means that with your scapula issue you receive less privilege. Looking at it from the eyes of the 115 lb 45 year old mom going for Kona, I'm giving her more priority than you. Sorry if it means that you (globally, not you specifically) don't get to swim over her back. She deserves better because she's signing up for the competition and having to compete in a harder event with no wetsuit. Just give her some space and problem solved.

 


official word is 74 deg. this morning

Here is your next 10 days:

10-Day Forecast for Lake Placid, NY
[/url]
High /
Low (°F)Precip. %Tonight
Jul 08Partly Cloudy56°20 %Tue
Jul 09Isolated T-Storms79°/60°30 %Wed
Jul 10Scattered T-Storms77°/61°50 %Thu
Jul 11Scattered T-Storms72°/48°50 %Fri
Jul 12Partly Cloudy72°/47°20 %Sat
Jul 13Partly Cloudy77°/52°20 %Sun
Jul 14Isolated T-Storms78°/56°30 %Mon
Jul 15Isolated T-Storms78°/57°30 %Tue
Jul 16AM Clouds / PM Sun77°/51°10 %Wed
Jul 17Sunny77°/53°0 %

Unless we have a heat wave in the 10 days after this set, we're in for a wetsuit swim. Then Slowman can just erase this entire thread like it never even happened!

Thanks The Beek and Dev.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Just looked at the LP extended forecast. If (<--- big word for such few letters) the forecast holds true, you guys are in for one of the best IMLPs in years, weather wise at least. High of 70. Light winds coming out of the north, I.E. small push from Wilmington/ Whiteface back to LP. Put on your PR hats.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Not that it matters, since more than 3 days out is basically a weather guess, but where are you looking at this premonition?

http://www.weather.com/...cid+NY+USNY0778:1:US

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Ah that explains it. That's still for the week before the race. :)