Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:35

Post #26 of 274 (8437 views)

Nice! I wish you had tossed that cold bucket of reality on the Monday morning after the race. That would have been the proverbial mushroom cloud where the Slowtwitch server used to sit. Seriously, did you take a really large dose of Psilocybin? Aside from the wildly entertaining aspects of your commentary, this is actually a really insightful perspective I equate to transcendental drugs.

My partner and I recently had a throw down over my signing up "the family" for yet another destination IM race. She was totally right, it was selfish and we have a lot of other priorities in our lives besides me chasing some silly fucking time on a clock. Don't get me wrong, I love the sport but I got caught up in the M-dot branded racing, the long distance races being the only races worth doing and generally being pissy about not being top 10 blah, blah, blah. (BTW, I'm so far from top 10 there's extra postage required).

I think its really easy to get sucked into the KQ thing, like that's the endgame. Racing is the journey and it shouldn't have a destination. What do you have left after 5 or 10 years of being disappointed? For me, it would have been bitterness. I'm not the guy that's going to make it to Kona on talent or training and I'm glad I figured that out before it spoiled the sport for me.

Kiley, thanks for posting your perspective. Slowtwitch is a tough crowd of true believers but having followed your posts, I know you don't give a shit. Well done.

Rob

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:38

Post #27 of 274 (8432 views)

funny, a friend of mine raced it for the first time and had a great race...

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:40

Post #28 of 274 (8426 views)

Kona might be a good test of "toughness" for the Pros.

For aspiring AG podiums it seems to be a good test of two things:
1) Ability draft (NOT legal drafting)- you gain 15 to 20 minutes if you don't get caught drafting, you only 10 to 15 minutes if you do get caught.
2) Ability to run well in the humidity.

This is not the greatest test of overall 140.6 racing ability.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:48

Post #29 of 274 (8402 views)

You want more people to perform better at the World Championships? There's only one winner...in every sport...the one who performs the best. that's the way it should be.

-------------
should world championships stay in 1 place, if you have the ability to move it around? So in Kona it's not necessarily who "performs the best"...it's much more than that, and that's the debate about it only being in Kona every year.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Peterszew] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:49

Post #30 of 274 (8398 views)

Peterszew wrote:

funny, a friend of mine raced it for the first time and had a great race...

On the way to Hawi I was passed by about 150 illegal drafters.

I don't remember a SINGLE person passing me that was NOT illegally drafting!!!

I asked myself:
Do all these people consciously decide to cheat?

I think the answer is no.

Here is what they probably think:
"There are a ton of people all around.
What am I supposed to do? I will just follow this one person legally.
Is it my fault that there are all these other people all around me?"

They have a point...
If I started the ride in a pack of 250 that is what I would probably think.

But I started on my own (due to a good swim).
Moving backwards in the field the cheating is very obvious.

Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Oct 25, 17 10:50

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:52

Post #31 of 274 (8368 views)

Do you believe that the best age groupers only win because they get to draft ?

Yes it’s a pain in the arse until about 5 Miles off the climb but then I would say it’s pretty clean

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:52

Post #32 of 274 (8366 views)

By saying “performs the best” I’m obviously oversimplifying it. The super bowl (or pick your sport) loser could have performed better than the winner but just had less talent or lost for other reasons (weather etc). My point is that in the end, there are only 2 spots that matter: men’s and women’s winner.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:53

Post #33 of 274 (8358 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

You want more people to perform better at the World Championships? There's only one winner...in every sport...the one who performs the best. that's the way it should be.

I don't have a problem with your statement........but it begs the question.....Would the same person win - if it were held somewhere else?

That's my personal issue with Kona (insert.....you're just mad because you'll never qualify, here). I think it's a terrible place to hold a world championship.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:54

Post #34 of 274 (8358 views)

"It's an absurd event in ridiculous conditions in a dumb place to be running a marathon"

+1.

First time someone has referenced Foucault here, well done.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:56

Post #35 of 274 (8340 views)

UKINNY wrote:

Do you believe that the best age groupers only win because they get to draft ?

Yes it’s a pain in the arse until about 5 Miles off the climb but then I would say it’s pretty clean

I believe that 50-75% of the people who podium in the 35-50 men's AGs would not have done so without illegally drafting.

Do all these people consciously choose to cheat ?

I think many are aware that they are "technically cheating" but they feel like they are "trying" to get out of the packs.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:59

Post #36 of 274 (8323 views)

Velocibuddha wrote:

UKINNY wrote:

Do you believe that the best age groupers only win because they get to draft ?

Yes it’s a pain in the arse until about 5 Miles off the climb but then I would say it’s pretty clean

I believe that 50-75% of the people who podium in the 35-50 men's AGs would not have done so without illegally drafting.

Do all these people consciously choose to cheat ?

I think many are aware that they are "technically cheating" but they feel like they are "trying" to get out of the packs.

is Ironman the only ones who do a top 5 for their age groups as well? Whatever happened to top 3 were considered to be important enough to be on stage, and then everyone after that can suck it and try and get faster? Or do other sports go further down than top 3?

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 10:59

Post #37 of 274 (8321 views)

Perhaps not but so what??

If you play the SB outdoor it might produce a different winner. If a race is windy, calm, hot, cold, hilly, flat, they could all impact the outcome.

Why do you need a different hypothetical winner than the one that Kona produces??

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:00

Post #38 of 274 (8316 views)

You will go back.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

BrentwoodTriGuy

Oct 25, 17 11:06

Post #39 of 274 (8278 views)

Thomas Gerlach wrote:

kileyay wrote:

Regardless you are probably right and to me the real question is not only how many people have been crushed by Kona, but how many others have been crushed trying to qualify for it?

ME and ME.... I spent 5 years absolutely killing myself trying to KQ because it was the be all, end all. After 2016, I gave up trying. I figured it was a lost cause and was filled with what was the worst heartache I've ever experienced in sport. It SUCKS. You race at the pointy end for a few years but if you don't get that KQ, you're nothing to anyone who races Ironman and people who don't even understand the sport (i.e. have you done that one in Hawaii).

Then in 2017, I decided to do a "fun" Ironman... ended up qualifying.. WOO ME! Showed up the big island and I was constantly looking to my wife going "is this it" or "didn't you expect it to feel different or bigger"? And the race... what the fuck. I only finished to not feel like a pussy. That race is DUMB. I constantly said, "this is the dumbest thing I've ever done." Not the coolest or even hardest... just dumbest. And note to the OP, I ran under 4 hours and finished under 10 and still think the whole thing sucked.

And yes, WTC and all the vendors do not care about our dreams... they care about our pocket book. I even had a couple rather annoying pitches from up and coming skinsuit companies (side note: don't tell someone you can't prove aero benefits of clothing and then immediately say your product is faster than X company). This was likely the biggest annoyance of the weekend. I never felt "special" for being at a world championship; I just felt pressured to buy everything from everyone there BECAUSE it was a world championship.

And I finish this with just the worst statement... I still want to go back. Am I mental? Yep. And honestly, this proved it. We all have a screw lose. I truly wish I could change and just accept that I did decent in my one and only showing at Kona but nope, can't do it. I'm definitely not trying to return in 2018, so hopefully my feelings will change but I'm already targeting a specific race to return in 2019. And all for what? A 20-30 minute better finishing time. Seriously, mental.

UGH!

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:07

Post #40 of 274 (8265 views)

Fun read. A bit Tinleyesque. ;) Many valid points. I don't care what anybody says, the Big Island is a fantastic place for a vacation.

Seriously, my three Kona finishes were three of the best weeks of my life. That was 20 years ago so things were more simple then, or has time rewritten every line? If I had the chance to do it all again, would I? Could I?

Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Oct 25, 17 11:50

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:12

Post #41 of 274 (8220 views)

UKINNY wrote:

Do you believe that the best age groupers only win because they get to draft ?

Yes it’s a pain in the arse until about 5 Miles off the climb but then I would say it’s pretty clean

It did seem that from Hawi to Kawaihae most people were NOT drafting.

Also from Kawaihae back to Kona:
25% were not illegally drafting
25% were illegally drafting the whole way (but at only 4-6 meters)
25% were occasionally illegally drafting (at 4-6 meters)
25% were following a wheel Tour de France style.

So ...... most people were NOT drafting for 15-60 miles.

Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Oct 25, 17 11:14

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:16

Post #42 of 274 (8191 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

Perhaps not but so what??

If you play the SB outdoor it might produce a different winner.

That's why they move it around.

Thanks.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:16

Post #43 of 274 (8188 views)

Holy crap - I just found this really really small fiddle. I am going to play it for you.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:17

Post #44 of 274 (8188 views)

Its like tennis you win the grand slam and it shows how well rounded you are. You only win at Wimbledon or the french open you really are not the best or most rounded athlete just the best on that surface.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:17

Post #45 of 274 (8180 views)

Totally agree.

99% of the folks who train for this race are giving up SO much in their life. Many end up divorced. Many miss so many family things because they are doing their long rides. Many get hurt so they do not even make it to the race. And yes, to see the "run" times is a joke for most. Who cares how "fast" your bike time was when you are walking the run.

I am working on my Penticton videos. Did I win first place in all the races? No way, just too many super folks. Did I have a great time? Yep. Did the wife have a great time, yet. Did I spend crazy amount of time on the weekends training for the long course tri? Nope, zero, but why did I do some much better in my AG then just 6 guys?
Was it a fun challenge to try and do 4 races in 9 days. Yep. Just trying to decide if I want to try to get Legend again in Denmark next year.

Too many in the Long stuff are just OCD. To them, it is a drug, and they just cannot see it. WTC does a great job keeping their addicts addicted. Nothing illegal about that.

I have a friend who for years has just wanted to qualify for Kona. Well, he was there this year, and I see a lot of his run was walking. Shall be interesting when I talk to him to see if he is now over it, or even worse about he has to go back and be better.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Last edited by: h2ofun: Oct 25, 17 13:08

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:18

Post #46 of 274 (8175 views)

All fair points

It is impossible to not draft in those miles say 15 to 40 I agree - it is frustrating because literally there is nowhere to go particularly if you get out in that low 1 hour to 1-06/07 timeframe

That said I think the chips fall as they should in the end for the most part and the better riders and runners grab those top 10 spots

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [kileyay] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:21

Post #47 of 274 (8154 views)

This post should be in the Athlete Guide for every Ironman event.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:22

Post #48 of 274 (8147 views)

That’s not why they move the SB around. Thanks.

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:29

Post #49 of 274 (8106 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

That’s not why they move the SB around. Thanks.

Semantics. It's not held in the same f-n place, EVERY year. Translation.....no one has an inherent advantage (or disadvantage). You can't say that about Kona..... (but, I have a feeling you will, anyway).

Re: Made Crazy by Kona: An Editorial on the Most Malignant Social Force in Triathlon [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 17 11:30

Post #50 of 274 (8103 views)

UKINNY wrote:

All fair points

It is impossible to not draft in those miles say 15 to 40 I agree - it is frustrating because literally there is nowhere to go particularly if you get out in that low 1 hour to 1-06/07 timeframe

That said I think the chips fall as they should in the end for the most part and the better riders and runners grab those top 10 spots

I think I had a top 5 AG finish in me.
But I overheated (probably starting on the bike) and I dropped out on the run.
Swim/bike/survive- is a very, very hard road to an AG podium at Kona.
Float/Draft/Run- is a much, much easier road.

Still, I really want that top 5 AG finish.
I am NOT convinced it is impossible for me without explicitly cheating.

I am considering trying again.

What other 140.6 world championship is there?

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