frankfurt is more prestigious if you're european, especially if you're from germany. especially if you're a young german based racer, and you haven't been around long enough to have seen the arc in the sport. germany does have the truly prestigious race, but it's not frankfurt. IM lost the most prized race outside of Kona, which was IM germany (in roth). that race became challenge roth. IM placed a race in frankfurt because it needed a german race, but you could throw as much prize money as you want at that race and it will never be roth. now...

as resumes go, lionel is undeniably among the top half dozen men since he's been racing (the last 7 years), at the half and full distance. just look at the resume. only jan, sebi, patrick have won the big one (kona, not frankfurt) since lionel has been racing. it's fair to say these 3 have better resumes. i don't see how he ducks anybody. he does the opposite. he seeks out top athletes to race. he's raced those 3 top-level germans a bunch of times, and does okay. if memory serves in both of lionel's challenge championship wins (2017 and 2018) he beat great fields (kienle got 2nd both times). like him or don't like him, but facts are facts.

Never heard of Frankfort triathlon until your post

But I am a newbie

Only been racing triathlons for 38 years

imagine being such a hysterical lionel fan boy, you think his 2nd place in Kona, puts him at the same level as multiple winners of the race, as well as the other biggest races in the sport

I see no problem with him choosing Copenhagen over Frankfurt. He needed the KQ

who has disputed that he's not entertaining? I love the comedy his crazy schemes and subsequent annual meltdowns provide.

all I've done is call out the hysterical fanboyism which has been claiming he has one of the greatest race resumes, while winning precisely zero of the biggest races in the sport

Sorry mate, I can’t help you there. I can help you with the city though. It is Frankfurt, not “Frankfort”

all I've done is call out the fanboys claiming that lionel has a race resume comparable to those who have multiple Kona / 70.3 WC victories, along with victories in the other biggest races in the sport.
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Seems people are forgetting that when he chose Copenhagen it was the tougher KQ. Blummenfeldt was supposed to be racing and it only had one spot. Frankfurt was just a bunch of guys Lionel beats all the time and had 2 spots. So saying he ducked competition by not doing 2021 Frankfurt is a bold faced lie.

I never claimed slowman said he was the best. I've said lionel doesn't belong in the category of 'one of the greatest'.

so I guess I'll have to repeat it again: lionel has won precisely zero of the biggest races in the sport. others who have done so, and multiple times, do belong in that superlative category. they've earned that.

David McNamee has been on the Kona podium twice in that time as well as winning other full and half distance races and no one would be claiming that he's 'one of the greatest'.

David is a great athlete with some awesome results and deserves respect, but I'm sure he would agree that his race results do not compare to what Kienle, Frodeno and Lange have done in this last decade.

and that is how we know that this 'lionel has one of the greatest race resumes' is just baseless fanboyism.

by the way, just for the Americans, whether you've 'heard of' McNamee or not, is irrelevant when talking about race result achievements.

Earlier in the thread you jumped all over slowman for him suggesting that Lionel has one of the top resumes in long course tri. Slowman did not say he has the best, he simply said one of the best. Then you layered your bar for what one of the best means which was not part of slowman's criteria. Subsequently you called people on this thread clowns and have called Lionel a clown. I think it is perfectly fine to say what your criteria is and it is not disrespectful to Kienle, Frodeno or Lange who are the only ones who have have won Kona since Lionel became a pro.

Iden in my criteria does not factor in yet,, just like Michael Ralaert or Jodi Simpson did not. None have done anything in 140.6. That's my criteria, and it may not be that of others. In my view of long course racing you don't factor into the long course greats until you have wins at 140.6. This is the bar that Mark Allen had to cross to be considered in the long course greats conversation. Until then he was a guy who could win everything at every other distance but failed 6 times at Ironman.

Interesting, because if you take away the 70.3 record, Lionel has what ? 3 titles ? Granted his 2nd at Kona is great, but does Lionel have a better 140.3 record than Hoffman, TO, McAmee, Skipper, even Wurf ? Maybe even Tim Don ? Rappstar has more IM wins and a world ITU to boot. Do we include him ?

Then if you factor 70.3 in, 2x WC 70.3 Gomez (who has won a 140.3), Iden 2x WC 70.3, the list grows more.

Lionel is always a contender, but there is a group of 3 (in recent years) above the rest, then there is a a group of 7,8, 9...maybe 12 than if you play with the criteria would move up or down. I am sure the TO fans see their boy in the top 5, as do the Javier fans. There just happens to be more Lionel fans (of which I am one).

the original response was to add balance and reality to some fanboy nonsense claiming lionel has one of the greatest resumes of the last decade, rather than dragging him down.

it's grossly disrespectful to what the other athletes have worked to achieve, to put lionel in that same bracket for a handful of wins against weak fields and a second place in Kona - work that lionel has steadfastly refused to do to get to that level, as he's always thought he knows best, and every year we get a similar post Kona/ end of season video from him.

those who actually belong in that bracket have even multiple Kona / 70.3 WC wins over that period and on top of that, many wins in the biggest races in the sport outside of Kona and the 70.3 WC's, e.g. Frankfurt and Roth, which have always had some of the most competitive fields, whether they mean anything to you or not is irrelevant, along with last years Daytona race - which lionel did not win either.

lionel has a great resume that many would love, but it's far far off 'one of the greatest resumes over the last decade' - and despite that being obvious, even from a quick scan of results, the fanboys still cry about him getting a 2nd in Kona or 4th in Daytona and claiming he's up there with those who actually win these events - and multiple times. there are many European athletes who have achieved very similar results to lionel, who you wouldn't dream of putting in this 'one of the greatest' brackets. difference is, lionel has this cult fanboy club.


as for the dodging races - he's consistently dodged the 70.3 WC's, not just this year, which has historically even been his strongest distance.

this year, very obviously Tulsa had the stronger field over CdA and yet he chose CdA. he then chose the very obviously weaker field in Copenhagen, where even Wurf wasn't due to race until the last moment, over racing Frankfurt. and instead of simply staying in Europe after the Tri Battle, he chose to fly back and forth to the US. many European athletes perfectly well stay in the US for multiple races across months in order to manage their travel and training, but just another thing that lionel wasn't able to handle.

his reasons for choosing the weaker fields are perfectly understandable, but he can't then come out on youtube yelling about how he seeks out racing the best, as he has done many times, while his fanboys pedal this 'he's one of the greatest' nonsense. reality hurts for this group.

Controversial but I tend to agree with most of this.

Dan thinks top 6 in the last 7-8 years, but I tend to disagree if we are looking at Kona and 70.3 worlds. 2nd @ Kona and 4th @ 70.3s in 7 years is a relatively poor return if you are top 6.

If we include the regional races then yeh that bumps him up quite a bit, as he wins more often than he loses. But I think you have to put a lot more weighting on the Championships because let's face it until Covid that was the only time the best raced each other in peak form.

Where do you come up with "three" as your number?

Lionel has 23 IM 70.3 Wins. 4 IM wins and ton of 2nds. Then add 2 Challenge Championship Wins. 2019 Challenge Daytona win.