I called you an asshat and an idiotic because you posted something idiotic--something that merited me calling you that. You must have forgotten about that though.

I'm being dismissive of people who promote their opinion as fact without justification. There have been offenders on both sides, but generally it's the people saying things like you did in your original post. That, combined with the fact that most people who use your connotation of the word lap don't come from a swimming background means that I am dismissing them, but not because they're beginners--because they learned how to swim recently and now think they're the seminal authority on swimming jargon. Those are the people i'm dismissing. I think lap equals length. If you don't like it, or think it's unjustified then you're more than willing to present your opinion and reasoning. I'm in the business of refuting rational arguments, not dismissing.

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Not with the proper Poincaré map to keep the momentum vectors consistent.

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They are not wrong, but then neither are you.

A lap by it's very nature has to overlap, or meet it's end.

A 'Lap' is a name given to a length in some swimming terminology. As such that is also correct. It is being used as a noun rather than an adjective in this scenario.

Again, two people arguing two different points.

Another example is someone called 'Rod'. It is their name. They do not, by default, have to be a straight cylindrical bar of metal or wood, it is simply their name.

The term 'Lap' when used in SOME swimming terminology is simply the name given to a single length of the pool.

The term 'Lap' when used in english grammar refers to something circuitous. For example, a race loop.

Just because one is true does not meant the other is not.

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So then, what exactly is the point of swimmers even using the term lap?

Only the end opposite the starting blocks.

It also only has odd numbers on it. For a race like the 500 you usually put it in on either the 3, 5, or 7 (some swimmers don't like to see the low numbers) then show every (odd) number thereafter through 17. When the counter would read 19 you flip it over to the orange square.

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It's common in casual conversations, and in talking about odd distances. If coach gives a set with weird distances or a weird pacing breakdown, I translate to laps. Or if you get something like a 5min swim for distance you would commonly report your accomplishment to the coach in laps. It's also occasionally used when counting stroke or breath rates. I've seen a lot of people describe stroke rate in strokes/min which is useful in online discussions where the pool may not be an understood length. Ex: At my pool I average 11 strokes/lap and 3 or 4 breaths/lap (equivalent to 11 total arm pulls per 25 and 3 or 4 breaths per 25) There are lots of uses, and truthfully nobody gives it any thought because 99.999% of people I might have such a discussion with know exactly what I mean when I say "stroke," "lap," etc.

It's something I honestly gave almost zero thought to until last week. I had heard some PE teachers use the "other" connotation, but I pretty much just ignored them.

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I'm having a hard time understanding what all the fuss is about. Some clarification would help.


What is your definition of lap in swimming?

What is your definition of length for swimming?

In swimming, one length is pretty universally understood to be the distance between the ends of the pool--once across the pool, etc.

I say a swimming lap is equivalent to a length. Others say a lap is down and back. Most people who grew up swimming would equate "lap" to "length." Most swimming converts, and evidently Canadians/Frenchies who grew up swimming use lap equals down and back. The lap equals length connotation is consistent with verbiage used by several governing bodies in swimming, but it is inconsistent with the technical definition of a lap in other sports. Therein lies the rub.

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This is the funniest post I've ever read on ST. The use of the phrase "seminal authority on swimming jargon" is the pies de resistance.

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Your correct. Good catch. I'll try to do better in the future.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

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I think the bigger shock in what you describe is that people are not able to divide by the length of their pool, and need to be catered to! If they could (and it's not like a difficult division in a pool workout), they could count whatever they wanted (ponies, too) in their head. And use all the time saved arguing "lap" versus "length" to get onto the metric system train :p

I am still confused. I started AAU swimming at age 10. I am a whisker away from 60 now. Every lap I swam in all those years was 1 length of the pool, yet when I lapped someone I was two lengths ahead which should actually be two laps ahead by the way we define a lap. I don't think there is a age group swimmer alive who doesn't understand Zack, or an adult onset swimmer who does. It is a swimmer thing, if you ain't one you never will understand. Now if I can just get the Docs to understand the difference between an EKG and an ECG the world would be a better place.

I think we're beginning to get at an "all squares are rectangles" debate, which should definitely please our Euclidean friends on this thread. All lengths are laps, but not all laps are lengths

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Here's an "adult onset swimmer" (age 26) who understands this whole, utterly pointless discussion. That's not to say I understand Zack, who seems to have a length of something stuck up his butt.

And I have been around Real Swimmers who used the word length (or a variant thereof) to describe the upcoming set ("10 10-lenkers" was code for 10x250).

Effective communicators use the language of the audience, not the language of the speaker. Everyone understands what a length is, so if there's any doubt about the language of the audience, use "length."

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I ain't gonna read the hole ting but it is a lot easier to say 25,50,75,100, etc......yes I know ken , see you in Roosevelt exactly at 10:02 at the post office.

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That lap = length is understood in the nice of the sport and not to the most of the population..................I do not understand why you insist the majority should join your def.......Though both are right.One community is just larger...........................The irony is you have to change the definition of "swimmer" in the first place for your definition of lap. to be used by "all" swimmers. The definition of swimmer to 95% of the population is one who swims.........Not one who swims competively in North America blah blah blah...................Godd luck on changing the world . Quite frankly yout insistance just makes you look an elitist.
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I understand the Olympic quote but that does answer the unanswerable question unless you are at an Olympic meet. It is their language, whereas you need to use the language of your locality. Just because they are a respected organisation does not mean they control language. For example, in non English speaking countries it is not called a Lap despite what the Olympic Committee says.

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It seems even in your world of serious swimmers there is some controversy over what constitutes a "lap". When using cards it seems your length=lap definition is used. But, I was curious how the more modern world of electronics defines a lap. So, I googled electronic lap counters that stay on one end of the pool to find out if they count by ones or twos. Here is a review of one that provides some detail on how it works:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/...l.asp?articleid=1133

A quote from the review:

"As you swim, the unit will count, time, and compare your lap times (but the MEMORY retains only up to 50 laps – a “lap” being an out and back to the same side of the pool where the Lap Track is located)" (color added for emphasis)

So, it seems when swimmers are discussing "laps" they either mean a length or a circuit. That seems like a good reason to me to NOT use the term when trying to avoid confusion.

If you're doing hypoxic sets, none of this matters.

I think this thread demonstrates the true effect of hypoxic sets.

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If you are only capable of counting every "down and back" (because the counter is stuck at one end only) then of course you can't count more precisely than that. So in that sense it would be ridiculous for the unit to count each length, because it can't measure that, it could only interpolate it.


Yes and no. It's only confusing when you're talking to a group of people that have varied backgrounds in swimming, such as the unholy hodgepodge of people you get at a swim workout for triathletes. When training with my club swim team back home it was very unambiguous (swam literally millions of yards without a single question about this), but I'm still frustrated that I might need to change the way I use my words that have become deeply ingrained in my sport to accommodate new people who refuse to accept our language convention.


Suppose I walked into a bowling alley and told them that I recorded a strike whenever I knocked down all the pins in 2 consecutive frames instead of in just one single frame. If anyone casually bowling in the bowling alley were persuaded by that and were either confused or were so affected as to change their scoring method so as to record a strike every two frames, whose fault is that? Would that be confusing? Sure. Like in the sport of swimming, there is an accepted convention (at least here in America), and there are people coming into our swimming pool, casually swimming, and telling us that they record a lap every two lengths instead of one. Who is introducing the ambiguity? Certainly you would have to say it is the new people that are bucking the established counting method.


In the sport of competitive swimming, lap=length. This is reflected in the rules, as well as the vocabularies of the majority of real competitive swimmers.

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That just defines their meaning for use with the product. The fact that they had to explain speaks volumes. The terminology remains open. There is no correct answer. I spell 'colour' the US spells 'color'. Not withstanding the bastardisation of the English language neither are actually incorrect. There are always variations on words I don't understand why both lap and length being acceptable is such a difficult concept to grasp.

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It's "you're," not "your."

By all means, please continue to detract from the discussion.

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I have to give you props for being one of the most rationally-thinking people on here.

I applaud your work in seeking clarification in the lap vs. length debate.

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