If you think races like these, ie the ones that are not put on by multi-million dollar organizations. are willing to expose themselves to a potential $175,000 loss for a likely measly $25,000 gain, you are crazy.

So...they are entitled to nothing for the time they spent organizing and setting up the event? Or would you count that as an incurred cost?

John

That's fine if that's what y'all want, but I guarantee you if they increase registration the thread would be entitled, "Lake Tahoe increases prices, offers no new services" and there would be pages of diatribe.

Seemingly a lose lose proposition. Increase the price too much, you price out participants or make participants unhappy who thus demand more for their money even thought what they got was insurance. Keep the price low and accept the risk, angry people when cancelled.

Tough call and a lose-lose proposition it seems.

Bingo! If you engage in a business activity without insurance then you should pay the consequence. Ultimately companies putting together races are businesses that have risks. Why should all the risk be pushed out to the customer? This is simply not good business practice. Your customers dont give a crap as to why the race couldn't take place or if it wasn't the company's fault. It's not the participant's fault either that mother nature went crazy. As a business your responsibility is to refund for services not rendered (or provide appropriate consideration) and if you had any sense whatsoever as a business your insurance covered you. If you didn't have insurance then you have two choices as a business: 1. Be bastard and piss off any credibility you have as a business, as Lake Tahoe Triathlon has done, 2. Suck it up and invest in the long term success of your race by not pissing on your customer base.

In the end Lake Tahoe Triathlon pissed on all of you who missed out on this race. BTW, I raced the Expedition Man full Iron Distance this Saturday. This race is literally next door to the Lake Tahoe Triathlon. Expedition Man trated us like adults and went on with their race by having us sign a waiver that mase us acknowledge the fact that smoke adds a factor of danger to our health and that we take full responsibility for our actions. The field was very small, but the race was great. All of you Lake Tahoe participants should have taken Expedition Man's offer to come do our race for 50% off. My hats off to the Expedition Man organization for a quality event this weekend in less than ideal circumstances.

'Just a credit for a future race' - I'm OK with you asking for that, as long as when that race comes around, you're willing to:

- not have any generators, sound systems, tents, tables at the venue
- no tables at the aid stations
- willing to take a shirt from this year's canceled event
- no dumpsters. the company was paid this year for delivering them; too bad they weren't filled
- year-old water that may be a little stale; don't know what condition the year-old Gatorade, GU's, or anything else that was going to be available on course (plus chip in some money for the cost of storing that stuff for a year)
- you'll have to pay at the gate for the new race's current permit fees, since the canceled event's fees are already sunk, and there's no new registration income to replace it
- were the bike racks rented? if so, just lay your bike down on a patch of grass or dirt
- was there rented barricade fencing around transition, or along the entrances / exits? hope that nobody wanders into your path while you're racing

I'm sure I haven't hit everything, but if everyone got a free race next year, you would probably find that the race director isn't around to put the race on.

Again, it's the risk you take by going into business!!!! Cry me a river. It's the way the world works sir. You are totally within your rights to pass all the risks and loss to your participants but don't expect enthusiasm for your race next year, if there is a next year, when you treat your participants the way the Lake Tahoe Triathlon has treated theirs. If the risk is too much to handle, then you are absolutely right and you should not be in the business of putting races together. Your point is that it is a low-margin risky business. Agreed. So what? Changes nothing...

This is just brilliant logic....

So, in the first paragraph you basically say that the contract you sign agreeing to a no refund policy means nothing and the organization should buy insurance anyways.

Then in the second paragraph you argue how another organization mitigated risk succesfully by having participants sign a waiver.

My point is you should do everything you can to provide consideration for the participants loss. Rather this triathlon decided to simply say: Sorry suckers, you all agreed to this and you are out of luck. The participant is left thinking: Umm, all their costs are covered, I'm screwed, and they just threw in my face the fact that I agreed to be screwed. What they are doing may be legal and even "fair" but it's still very stupid.

There was actually another tri that was canceled here in May. It was held on a military base. And after Boston, the base freaked out and wanted full social security numbers, driver's license numbers, addresses, and more for 500 participants and and of the spectators. The race organizers canceled in on Tuesday or Wednesday (the event was Sunday) and gave full refunds, turned it into a donation, or gift cards to a local sporting good store.

Whoa, I never argued that the contract the participant signed means nothing. It is legally binding. However, it is a whole other matter to enforce that clause. You as a company can do that, as Lake Tahoe Triathlon has done, but that is not the best move for the long-term prospects of your race. My point is you should do everything you can to provide consideration for the participants loss. Rather this triathlon decided to simply say: Sorry suckers, you all agreed to this and you are out of luck. The participant is left thinking: Umm, all their costs are covered, I'm screwed, and they just threw in my face the fact that I agreed to be screwed. What they are doing may be legal and even "fair" but it's still very stupid.

This isn't about the ironman race is it?

SurfAwave69 wrote:

Lock_N_Load wrote:

My point is you should do everything you can to provide consideration for the participants loss. Rather this triathlon decided to simply say: Sorry suckers, you all agreed to this and you are out of luck. The participant is left thinking: Umm, all their costs are covered, I'm screwed, and they just threw in my face the fact that I agreed to be screwed. What they are doing may be legal and even "fair" but it's still very stupid.

THIS

For those defending the decision to cancel with no offer to give a race credit, please respond to my previous post...

Again, why not give registered athletes a credit to race in another event? Not asking for a cash refund. Not asking for much...and that wasn't offered.

• thunderstorms cancel the swim but rest of event proceeds
• act of God or terrorism terminates an event in progress (ie, Boston Marathon)
• train crossing corrupts the race for some (train schedules are, by law, not published)
• serious accident on course and EMT vehicles block the race course, corrupting the race for some
• a microburst takes down a tent killing people and the event is canceled (ie, see Indiana Sugarland concert)
• a volunteer knocks over your carbon frame in transition and breaks it, ruining your event

PM sent with my mailing address

Your speculation is as good as mine. I'm guessing police and barricades were already paid. Would they be refunded? I don't know. Different jurisdictions would have different policies and contracts.

Shirts and swag were definitely paid for (or donated). I'm guessing the beneficiary (if any) would lose out. Insurance was paid and a portion might be refunded. USATF will refund a portion but I don't know if USAT will.

Timing probably wouldn't be paid, unless bib numbers were already created. If that was the case, it might just be a portion that was paid. It's really impossible to say. Plus, triathlons have much, much bigger budgets and expenses than simple running races.

Did the race have any cash sponsors? Think the race director would give them their money back?

I want to make it clear to everyone reading this thread that I love triathlon and the supportive community around the sport. We need more races and race directors out there.

I usually participate in two tri's a month, a couple trail races, etc. On average, I spend $400 a month on race registrations. I feel as though I'm a big contributor to the industry; $400 a month is significant for me since I make well below $100,000 a year. That being said, I have a right to be displeased with the actions of Big Blue Adventures. They need to do what's right here and give those who spent a considerable about on the race a chance to participate in another event with a full credit.