Or maybe it would be more helpful just telling the OP and other ignorant readers the ins and outs of what goes into putting on races.

No, but Randy's pompous douchebag meter just got pegged at 11.

Holy crap. Just when I thought he couldn't be more arrogant or condescending, he ups his game again.

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float , hammer , and jog

In NY state you are specifically required to cover non work related injuries.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Certainly need to plan for certain things. Have to account for probability of "stuff like this" to happen, tho. Company did offer 25% credit, so something. Unclear at this point how many customers are upset.


I think decisions must factor in 3 groups: customers, employees, and share holders. I would guess you agree.
And some customers are not worth their business. I would guess you agree with this, as well.


I believe what is "reasonable" is here under discussion.

Really? Really??? Do you want us to mow your yard ... clean your house ... maybe make your bed for you?

WTC and many triathlons and marathons are businesses. Sure, some are making money for a "non profit" but as a CPA I can tell you that "non profit" is often a misnomer for "this is the way I make my living" but I do give something from the profits to charity.

Point being, if you are a RD you run a business. If I don't like the food or service at a restaurant ... I do not patronize it in the future. I don't feel that I should "volunteer" there simply because their service or product doesn't meet my expectations.

There are well over 600 marathons in the U.S. each year. Probably more tri's than that. If I do not feel like your event was enjoyable or that it valued my business ... there are plenty of others that I will choose to place my business with.

That's short term disability (which is a NYS requirement) which is different than worker's comp. I hope your HR person knows the difference

I do not have an HR person. Therefore I do it (god help us). I'm opening our first New York office this week. I remember reading on the New York Secretary of State website regarding workers comp that even non-work related injuries were covered, but you are probably right and I am remembering the section on disability. Basically I know enough to know I need insurance, and I buy it and set it up so that my payroll service provider takes care of it automatically and hopefully I never have to think about it again :)

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

try to stay focused here. The real problem is that someone who spends nearly $5k a year on race entry fees, and doesn't even make $100k is out $225. Get your priorities in order.

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I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.

[>>[/quote]

In NY state you are specifically required to cover non work related injuries.[/quote]

>
!! and I thought our CA WComp rules were screwy -- I retract the "idiot"

>

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RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"

It seems I was wrong about that - that is the disability insurance requirement, not the worker's comp! I'm a novice at all this HR stuff.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

The intent of the first statement was to show that some promoters have no problem finding insurance.

For the second statement: You used the term "force major" for triathlons to describe these types of situations. And used that to indicate that insurers would not pay. You also indicated that refunding money would put a promoter out of business. Guess what insurance is for. (It is rather rude to ask people to find your statements. I do appoligize for not including it but it happens. I have no intention of looking it up. Puts you in the difficult position of proving a negative but ...)

I certainly don't want to argue about this. I just want to ensure that non-factural statements don't become facts.

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For those who asked how much cancellation insurance would cost a promoter. The cost for a full package of insurance for an individual from active.com - including cancellation insurance, is $7. A promoter would pay much less than that for insuring just against event cancellation. A rough estimate could be attained from how many people have participated in triathlons and how much money would have been paid out for event cancellations. Simple division gives the expected payout per person. Add the premium to that.

I will not do the math as someone will disagree with the results.

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And I thought that simply pointing the OP to the court system was a harmless comment.

  
Just a general comment for the discussion. Local RDs in our area (NJ, NY, CT) are having to significantly increase entry fees or, in some cases, cancel races altogether because the local police departments are significantly increasing their fees (presumably due to the current state of local municipal finances). This squeezes the margins for local races even more, and it's a shame to see races cancelled altogether.

I know a number of local RDs personally and have talked to them this season about their races. It is apparent that putting on triathlons is a fairly difficult and stressful endeavor, with much worry about even getting to the break even point in terms of numbers of entrants, to say nothing of the incredible number of hours of work, both before and on race day. I understand they are making a business decision to put on these races, and hopefully make a profit, but it seems like an awfully difficult way to make money. As such, I, for one, am hugely appreciative of this, and will do all I can to support local races in my area. Putting on a local 5km running event, with 800 participants, seems a heck of alot easier and more economical than putting on a triathlon with 300 participants. I would consider doing the former, but never the latter.

I agree that RDs' responses to an unforseen cancellation should be as accommodative, transparent and communicative as possible, but entrants should not have unreasonable expectations with regards to refunds.

And slightly off topic, I want to give a shout out to CGI Racing for continuing to put on top notch events in our area, and particularly for offering free race photos at the NJ State tri. They had hired their own photographers who did a great job all over the event, and then athletes could simply download their photos from the website for free. They could easily have charged a nominal fee for photos to cover the costs of this service, but chose not to. Definitely putting customer service first!

I understand that putting on triathlons is a tough business. Totally get it.

...but, I see it as an excuse in this situation. Offering 25% off is pretty lame. These events are supported by the athletes There is no corporate dollars, no TV money; it’s the athlete. The credit offered doesn’t quite cut it. As the financial supporters of these events we should expect more.

As a race director I can assure you that most of the entry fee money is spent well before the event. If this were my race I wouldn't be able to refund more than about 10% of the entry fees at most. Sucks for everyone involved.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

Please, pretty please, with sugar on top -
SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

You've made your point, ad infinitum. We get it.

Many have disagreed with your point, and provided actual, real-life insights as to why you are mistaken. RD's who run races, explaining just how little (if any) $ is "left over" when a race is cancelled.
And, armed with this insight - you keep on saying the exact same thing. Over, and over. Like a broken record.

The butthurt will go away. If you let it.

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float , hammer , and jog

If I was a Race Director, I would not want you defending my decisions on message boards with this type of behavior.

25% of $225 is $56.25.

I agree that it sucks to be out money.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

Gary, as a Race Director, do you agree with the decision to give 25% off on next years race? What would you do in this scenario?

I tell you what, though. I'll be your insurer. Total up all of the race fees you've paid in your lifetime, and mail me a check for 10% of that value. And keep sending me checks for 10% of your entry fee every time you enter a race in the future.

In return I'll send you $225 now, and whatever fees you're out if this happens again.

You can have more. You just need to pay more.

UPDATE:

The RD gave a better offer...this was just emailed out:

"After some consideration we are increasing the race credit amount from 25% to 50%. Additionally the credit will be good for any Big Blue Adventure event. The credit is valid until August 24, 2014 and is for registration fees, not USAT or processing fees.

Soon we will process the credits and you will receive email notification to the email used during the online registration process.

All the best from the Big Blue Crew"

You don't seem to get that organising a triathlon is not a massive profit -making exercise for most RD's. Given that they rely on volunteers to put the race on, many people put in a lot of time for free to make the race happen, including the RD. As an athlete you have to accept that you may very occasionally have to accept that a race is called off and you will not get your money back. The alternative is far higher race entry fees or no races at all. If that happens, you will be left with nothing to post about!

It appears his race fee was $80, that is why he has been offered $20 credit to a future race.
Maybe he entered the Sprint - early entry is $80.
He says he is out $225, so he is probably including hotel/travel expenses in that figure.

That is my take on the apparent discrepancies.

This seems a lot more reasonable. Now /thread.