Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 15:55

Post #26 of 110 (5590 views)

I had a titanium railed Cobb SHC snap both at the same time just a couple of weeks ago. Fortunately I was on the trainer. Seems strange, doesn't it?

Rappstar wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

GMAN19030 wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

rferic18 wrote:

Didn't Rapp's saddle break?

Yes. The saddle rails snapped in four places. Progressively. One rail snapped about 30km into the ride, and it was manageable, but with the saddle being weakened by the one rail snapping, it just kept breaking more. By the time I was climbing to Hawi, the saddle was basically just loosely held onto to the top of the seatpost.

After the turnaround in Hawi, I flagged down tech support and sad, "I need a saddle." They had one guys bike on the roof, and we just pulled the saddle off and swapped it in. But obviously wasn't able to position it correctly. It was better than what I had, but it was pitched way up, so I had the choice of either riding it MTB style - sitting back big-slam style on it - or sitting with the nose of the saddle jammed into my prostate. I needed to stand a lot to take pressure off and just generally was pretty uncomfortable. But I was able to finish the ride and thought I might run okay. But my legs were pretty messed up from doing 150km without proper support under my ass...

When you think about "shit happens" during a race, this was not something that ever entered into my consciousness... Kona definitely has some Bermuda-Triangle-esque qualities when it comes to bikes.

I've always avoided carbon railed saddles but I put a Dash saddle on my bike last winter... mainly because I wanted to try the Dash but I wish Dash had a Ti railed saddle.

Sorry about your bad luck.

These were titanium rails that snapped. Solid titanium rails...

Might be time to "upgrade" to hollow CroMo steel rails...probably weigh the same as solid Ti rails, and if designed correctly, basically infinite fatigue life.

Nice work out there in any case :-)

I am going to see if Cobb can make me an SHC170 with CrMo rails. If I had the option of steel rails, I would always choose them.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:00

Post #27 of 110 (5584 views)

It would if I didn't have another friend tell me post-race that he snapped rails on two separate occasions on an SHC170... I've already pinged John about this. Seems he needs to have a sit-down with QC with whomever is making his saddles.

That said, I've ridden a HC or SHC 170 for six years and this is the first time I've ever had an issue in tens of thousands of miles.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:04

Post #28 of 110 (5566 views)

That is strange. Mine was as new and snapped. I think you're right that it could be a bad batch.......They sent me a steel one, which I would have much rather had the titanium......if it holds.

Rappstar wrote:

It would if I didn't have another friend tell me post-race that he snapped rails on two separate occasions on an SHC170... I've already pinged John about this. Seems he needs to have a sit-down with QC with whomever is making his saddles.

That said, I've ridden a HC or SHC 170 for six years and this is the first time I've ever had an issue in tens of thousands of miles.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:14

Post #29 of 110 (5523 views)

Sorry about the breakage, you never know when gremlins will strike. My new SHC's do have hollow croMo rails, 7gr. difference in weight but the durability seems much better. Using carbon rails on any saddle limits the adjustment range [fore/aft] a lot so for some seat designs it just is not possible.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:21

Post #30 of 110 (5502 views)

chaparral wrote:

Carbon fiber may actually be a pretty ideal material for this kind of clamped joints. Most of the stress concentration will be in the polymer matrix, so it take the most of the load preventing from sliding. Polymers are pretty good for this sort of stress concentration. Even if it really stresses some of the carbon fibers and they break, their load will be transferred to fibers not being bent by this clamp.

I doubt that will work, because if the fibers break then the matrix will also be broken (tensile strength of the fiber will be 100 times higher than the matrix, plus there will be 70% fiber vs only 30% matrix.

_____________________
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Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

urbantriathlete

Oct 11, 15 16:29

Post #31 of 110 (5469 views)

Saddle breaks are so random. I've never had an issue with carbon rails on the 2 romin evo's , nor a selle italia SLR thru 10k miles, but did snap a romin evo in half hitting a speed bump.

That said - kudos for not throwing in the towel. Did you consider just bailing and then crushing IMAZ to set yourself up for 2016?

Also - why didn't you run the new fork, any other reason aside from "nothing new on race day approach"?

Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [John Cobb] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:30

Post #32 of 110 (5468 views)

any available in black? I got a white, but am afraid to use it as my last white one now is non-white. ;-)

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [urbantriathlete] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:36

Post #33 of 110 (5444 views)

urbantriathlete wrote:

Saddle breaks are so random. I've never had an issue with carbon rails on the 2 romin evo's , nor a selle italia SLR thru 10k miles, but did snap a romin evo in half hitting a speed bump.

That said - kudos for not throwing in the towel. Did you consider just bailing and then crushing IMAZ to set yourself up for 2016?

Also - why didn't you run the new fork, any other reason aside from "nothing new on race day approach"?

Yes, i considered it. Decided to finish and STILL crush IMAZ. Wink

Wink

New fork doesn't work with magura brakes yet.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 16:49

Post #34 of 110 (5395 views)

Rappstar wrote:

It would if I didn't have another friend tell me post-race that he snapped rails on two separate occasions on an SHC170... I've already pinged John about this. Seems he needs to have a sit-down with QC with whomever is making his saddles.

That said, I've ridden a HC or SHC 170 for six years and this is the first time I've ever had an issue in tens of thousands of miles.

Given Ti's fatigue resistance, this is really weird. Where'd the rails crack (at the bends where the rod is notched)?

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

urbantriathlete

Oct 11, 15 16:58

Post #35 of 110 (5360 views)

THAT is one heck of an answer. Best of luck at IMAZ!

Follow up - do you think Magura rim breaks are that much more effective? Especially since Dimond claims the new fork is more effective at wider yaw that you will experience at Kona (and IMAZ if it's anything like last year)?

Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 17:00

Post #36 of 110 (5354 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

Guddis wrote:

Carbon cranks brake. Done it 4 times.

Seriously, first time I have heard of a crank breaking and I have had carbon cranks on 2 bikes (but generally stuck with Al).

Happens to Al too

To be fair, the crankarm was underbuilt, and ended up being recalled.....none of which mattered when it broke mid-sprint.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 18:14

Post #37 of 110 (5228 views)

natethomas wrote:

There is probably a reason why some pro cyclists (Cancellara, Nibali, Contador) use mechanical shifting for their critical races. There is less to go wrong.

are you SURE about that? http://www.bicycling.com/...bikes-tour-de-france

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 18:14

Post #38 of 110 (5226 views)

Similar experience with the Blackwell research flow (the predecessor to the Cobb) with ti rails.

ggeiger wrote:

I had a titanium railed Cobb SHC snap both at the same time just a couple of weeks ago. Fortunately I was on the trainer. Seems strange, doesn't it?

Rappstar wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

GMAN19030 wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

rferic18 wrote:

Didn't Rapp's saddle break?

Yes. The saddle rails snapped in four places. Progressively. One rail snapped about 30km into the ride, and it was manageable, but with the saddle being weakened by the one rail snapping, it just kept breaking more. By the time I was climbing to Hawi, the saddle was basically just loosely held onto to the top of the seatpost.

After the turnaround in Hawi, I flagged down tech support and sad, "I need a saddle." They had one guys bike on the roof, and we just pulled the saddle off and swapped it in. But obviously wasn't able to position it correctly. It was better than what I had, but it was pitched way up, so I had the choice of either riding it MTB style - sitting back big-slam style on it - or sitting with the nose of the saddle jammed into my prostate. I needed to stand a lot to take pressure off and just generally was pretty uncomfortable. But I was able to finish the ride and thought I might run okay. But my legs were pretty messed up from doing 150km without proper support under my ass...

When you think about "shit happens" during a race, this was not something that ever entered into my consciousness... Kona definitely has some Bermuda-Triangle-esque qualities when it comes to bikes.

I've always avoided carbon railed saddles but I put a Dash saddle on my bike last winter... mainly because I wanted to try the Dash but I wish Dash had a Ti railed saddle.

Sorry about your bad luck.

These were titanium rails that snapped. Solid titanium rails...

Might be time to "upgrade" to hollow CroMo steel rails...probably weigh the same as solid Ti rails, and if designed correctly, basically infinite fatigue life.

Nice work out there in any case :-)

I am going to see if Cobb can make me an SHC170 with CrMo rails. If I had the option of steel rails, I would always choose them.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 18:22

Post #39 of 110 (5190 views)

Your story reminds me of a Tinley Talks article in the back of a 1980s Triathlete mag, where he told a story of pro triathlete, not sure who it was, who was doing IMH and his saddle shell snapped off, but the rails remained in the clamp. The pro jammed a his water bottle on the rails and that was his makeshift saddle for the rest of his ride.

sorry about the misfortune.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Cobble] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 18:52

Post #40 of 110 (5106 views)

Cobble wrote:

I doubt that will work, because if the fibers break then the matrix will also be broken (tensile strength of the fiber will be 100 times higher than the matrix, plus there will be 70% fiber vs only 30% matrix.

Ohh, yes the matrix will break, but the crack will not propagate.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [philly1x] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 18:59

Post #41 of 110 (5087 views)

philly1x wrote:

natethomas wrote:

There is probably a reason why some pro cyclists (Cancellara, Nibali, Contador) use mechanical shifting for their critical races. There is less to go wrong.

are you SURE about that? http://www.bicycling.com/...bikes-tour-de-france

In general in stage races the risk isn't too high since riders can get a spare bike in case of a problem. It's different in triathlon where there's no outside assistance allowed, so if your bike fails, you got yourself a big problem. I think everyone needs to decide what risks they are willing to take or not. I'd think since the Hawaii course isn't very technical there is not much benefit from electronic shifting so you might as well ride a mechanical groupset.

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 19:05

Post #42 of 110 (5062 views)

Rappstar wrote:

These were titanium rails that snapped. Solid titanium rails...

I broke solid titanium rails on a saddle during a ride awhile back:

...the subsequent interaction with this company's marketing leader at the time, was, ummm...not quite sure how to describe it. Based on this interaction, though, I don't ride this manufacturer's saddles anymore.

=================
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http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [rbuike] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 19:07

Post #43 of 110 (5053 views)

Heather said this on Facebook:

Quote:

Tell me about it! I hesitated to go to Di2 for so long for this very reason. I'm not a mechanical numpty and I know all the details about how to micro adjust Di2, reset the system, etc. and I'm super anal about checking the battery. Still trying to figure it out with the Cervelo and Shimano guys today. Pretty much the worst reason to be out of a race.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 19:42

Post #44 of 110 (4982 views)

Years ago, (mid 90's) it was either Tinley or Ray Browning had ire saddle fall off during an Ironman (New Zealand I think) and had to ride the last 30 miles or 30K without one and still faired pretty well. Slow man or Monty might remember.

In Reply To:

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 19:51

Post #45 of 110 (4951 views)

Diabolo wrote:

"Who the heck is that guy running barefoot?"

A legend of our sport, the Croc, Brad Bevan.

....sorry to derail the thread....looks like Croc was 20+ years ahead of his time, winning that race in the velodrome riding a beam bike and running barefoot!

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [BikeTechReview] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 20:06

Post #46 of 110 (4904 views)

Mine were solid too on the Cobb. Snapped at the same time in the same place. They were ok, but not great and replaced mine with a lesser model. Thinking of switching after that too, but the saddle worked well for me.

BikeTechReview wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

These were titanium rails that snapped. Solid titanium rails...

I broke solid titanium rails on a saddle during a ride awhile back:

...the subsequent interaction with this company's marketing leader at the time, was, ummm...not quite sure how to describe it. Based on this interaction, though, I don't ride this manufacturer's saddles anymore.

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [philly1x] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 20:08

Post #47 of 110 (4896 views)

philly1x wrote:

natethomas wrote:

There is probably a reason why some pro cyclists (Cancellara, Nibali, Contador) use mechanical shifting for their critical races. There is less to go wrong.

are you SURE about that? http://www.bicycling.com/...bikes-tour-de-france

Yes.

http://roadcyclinguk.com/...-s-works-tarmac.html

http://roadcyclinguk.com/...cialized-tarmac.html

http://roadcyclinguk.com/...low-trek-domane.html

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 20:10

Post #48 of 110 (4890 views)

Rappstar wrote:

When you think about "shit happens" during a race, this was not something that ever entered into my consciousness... Kona definitely has some Bermuda-Triangle-esque qualities when it comes to bikes.

Too bad about the saddle, thats gotta be a crazy way to go.

About the weird Kona failures, I wonder if part of it is all the abuse the racers' bikes get via the airlines (for those that send bikes that way) in transit and in ground handling. I imagine that some of the abuse the bikes get even clever engineers can't think up (and design for). Trust me, I have seen it all.

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Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [urbantriathlete] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 20:44

Post #49 of 110 (4822 views)

urbantriathlete wrote:

THAT is one heck of an answer. Best of luck at IMAZ!

Follow up - do you think Magura rim breaks are that much more effective? Especially since Dimond claims the new fork is more effective at wider yaw that you will experience at Kona (and IMAZ if it's anything like last year)?

They are 3D printing me a cover so I can both use the Maguras AND run the super fork. But we are not sure how long it will take. Yes, i want to use it. But I'm happy with my setup as is as well.

And yes, hydraulic brakes are that good. The SRAM hydraulic rim brakes are awesome as well.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Re: Kona Pro Bike Failures [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]

Oct 11, 15 20:44

Post #50 of 110 (4819 views)

Titanflexr wrote:

Rappstar wrote:

It would if I didn't have another friend tell me post-race that he snapped rails on two separate occasions on an SHC170... I've already pinged John about this. Seems he needs to have a sit-down with QC with whomever is making his saddles.

That said, I've ridden a HC or SHC 170 for six years and this is the first time I've ever had an issue in tens of thousands of miles.

Given Ti's fatigue resistance, this is really weird. Where'd the rails crack (at the bends where the rod is notched)?

middle of the rails. Neither at the bend nor at the location of the clamp.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

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