Many itu pro's will ride trainers at very kick ass "exotic" locations race week (i'd be very curious who the model/athlete is in the picture). They have their course familiarization ride but beyond that many will simply hit up the trainer. How many pro's or AG'ers get hit in Kona each year pre-riding the course?

ETA: And I just noticed it was a feedback ad which those things are awesome. Those trainers are so light weight and so it kinda makes sense to showcase riding an trainer in "paradise". It's pretty good advertising that the OP made a note of a guy riding a trainer in "paradise".....essentially the design of the ad worked......and they are so light weight, easily to travel with. Other trainers not so much.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If you get killed riding on the roads, you will unfortunately have been exceedingly unlucky, as the odds are so against that actually happening.

Not that this is about you or any particular individual, of course.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

How bout....ride inside...ride outside...I don't care as long as people get to do the training and feel safe. I have done over 3 hours on the trainer indoors and I enjoy riding outside. When I just want to get it done and dont want to think about my clothing, my tire pressure, nutrition, deal with lights and wind and and and ....even in in place like DK where there are lots of bike paths I just get on my trainer where I can do my workout anytime of the day that suits me. ...oh and before I forget....I have been knocked off my bike once already, almost hit numerous times and one bike crash which sent my wife into a panic when she saw the road rash...so yeah I get the safety reasons for staying indoors.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

So how often have you contributed to family's of cyclists that were killed?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Seeing the picture, this was going to be my immediate response.

Based on the Specialized logos, World Champ stripes, and that bike: It's Flora Duffy and I'm willing to bet she's just spinning her legs prior to a race. In this instance it makes sense: unfamiliar place, controlled workload, efficiency of time, etc.

Not saying others do not do this, but in this instance I think there is a very reasonable explanation.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Again: Not that this is about you or any particular individual, of course. Nor is it about me.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

No I was asking because you made a very specific comment (almost faulting cyclists who move off the road for whatever reason), so I was curious how far you took with that advocacy statement/philosophy. You very much called out cyclists who moved indoors, so I was calling you out on your own advocacy.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

But you made this about me and "every cyclist who decides to forego riding on roads". So that is me and many people I know because training indoors is very efficient and there is a 0% chance of me getting hit by a car. I agree that I would be against the odds if I got killed but I can make sure I am not unlucky by not riding outside if I do not feel safe doing it.

So you can keep riding outside but don't say shit like that to people who chose riding indoors because they want to be safer, or more time efficient, or just because they want to.

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Twitter - Instagram

Last comment, and you can have the final words.

The *net effect* of cyclists riding exclusively indoors is to reduce the freedom (fewer safe roads, less input into road/traffic design, greater restrictions on where cyclists are allowed) and safety (less familiarity of cyclists to drivers, less expectation of encountering cyclists by drivers) of those cyclists who wish to ride outdoors. Argument ad absurdum: you think the last cyclist who wants to ride outdoors will have *any* right to do so in a safe manner whatsoever?

Don't want to ride outdoors? Fine, ride indoors. Just don't think that the cumulative effect is negligible to the rest of the cyclists who ride the roads.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

While I don't totally disagree with your premise, I do think there is an important point that's not discussed, which is the type of rider that's involved.

Bike-friendly infrastructure upgrades are rarely (possibly never) given because of needed bike upgrades for people like US, meaning that we ride for both training and enjoyment. Our frequency is just not high enough on the roads, no matter where we go.

In contrast, commuting-purpose infrastructure upgrades are the main consideration. If there are lot of bike commuters, or the city wants more of them, they can spend the money to upgrade. In countries where bike commuting is big-time like in the city of Copenhagen, the bikes actually get priority on road design.

So while the general premise of 'more cyclists on the road = more friendly drivers and better infrastructure" is generally correct, I think the reality of the improvements are nearly negligible when it comes to us. Even if every single Zwift user went out and did outdoor rather than indoor riding, I am seriously skeptical it would make any difference in road safety or infrastructure upgrades.

I wouldn't go biking somewhere I am not familiar with or that is potentially dangerous.

Disagree. MAMILs are generally financially successful and politically powerful compared to the average citizen. If everyone who is riding primarily indoors year-round would ride outside more and spend more $ and time advocating for safer roads for cycling it would make a difference. There's no chance of that happening if everyone decides it's too dangerous and retreats to their caves to pedal in place for the rest of their lives.

If everyone who is riding Zwift or Peloton would ride outside more and spend $ and time advocating for safer roads for cycling it would make a difference.

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I'd argue that at one time everyone was riding outdoors and doing their "advocacy" by being present outdoors on their bikes. How did that work out? Now it seems those same people don't think it worked out enough that they are choosing safer options.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I live in Southern California. First I think the premise is bullshit, but second I'd argue that more cyclists outside acting like assholes, as many do, pose a far greater threat to the rest of us than those riding away inside. I'm a cyclist and I see cyclist douchebaggery all the time when I am driving

I don't ride in groups larger than 2 -4 . Even then I'm often pretty much the only one that even makes an attempt to stop at stop signs. There are people that grip about the bad drivers in my area, but more often than not when I stop at a sign, even a car with the right of way will wave me through.

I used to ride outside a lot more. Then I got hit by a drunk driver at 1:30 on a weekday afternoon with light traffic in an area that cyclists use a lot. Then I cut it to once a week. Then even waking up at the ass crack of dawn would get my buzzed countless times and said f this. Only way for me to control not getting hit by a car is not riding outside.

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Twitter - Instagram

Advocacy is more than just being present outdoors on bikes. Women and blacks were present in the U.S. for a lot of years before they got the right to vote. Mothers were present in the U.S. for a lot of years before they decided to do more to help curtail drunk driving.

If you want to say riding outside isn't important enough to me to take more action, that's OK. As someone who has experienced the freedom to ride on the roads safely (but not without fear) for more than 50 years, I'm glad I've had that opportunity and feel some need to try to urge others to not let that freedom be potentially taken away by their fellow citizens who would gladly have cyclists off the roads.

If I’m one of the most famous people on a tiny island nation, I might do the same sometimes so I can focus on my workout.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Mark I'm not saying it's not important enough. I'm saying I've seen where we were a culture of outdoor riding and huge advocacy's for our own safety for generations (you honestly don't think we've already been advocating for our own safety/presence?????).....and that difference did what for us???

-we are at a point where more and more outdoor cyclists are having to decide just how "safe" they actually are.


So I was more or less saying we've have the greatest numbers of advocacy for ourselves already imo with # of cyclists on the road and that did what difference? We've created cities with bike lanes, we've pushed for better advocacy of biker safety, etc etc. So I'm questioning your "make a difference" point. I'd argue we've seen just how much it has or hasn't helped in the fact that people who LOVE outdoor riding have to make decisions based on their "safety".

So when I hear someone like you or Ken seemingly sorta slap the wrists of people riding indoors now for their own safety (as if it's their fault your less safe now), I kinda push back on that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Brooks,

I don't think we should give up. Freedom comes with risks. I ride with fear, so I understand. One of these days I'll stop commenting on these threads.

Mind you I'm not giving up. I've been hit 2.5 times over my 20+ years as a "cyclist"; not counting riding bike as a kid, etc (I say 0.5 times cus I was side swapped and actually didn't get hurt, thank god my junior athlete who was with us didnt either, everyone at the intersection was "WTF" to the driver who sped off) and ride outdoors 90% of my own riding time.


But I dont ride like I used to, I dont just go out the door and ride whatever. I either ride in a group or ride in a "closed" traffic area. I won't go ride alone anymore.

And no I don't resort to indoor riding much, my squad does once a week usually (more for ease in the winter), but even when it's winter and cold I put them outdoors most of the time, but again in a setting that I think is as safe as possible.....ie we drive to different locations to get to "safer" options.

So I'm just saying that I think we've had our biggest likely impact already and it has led to this "indoor" movement. So I need to see more from you to believe now we can "make a difference". I think we've already likely had our chance and we saw what that led to.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I hear ya. When I lived in Japan for a few years I was scared for my life every time I tried to ride.

Fwiw I usually do the wnw Raleigh thing in daylight months and indoor or solo weekends other times. I TT the arena sometimes while folks do laps.

I’ve asked them to change the route a dozen times to no avail. They don’t change it because the other options are hillier.

I have good stuff in town. But the heavier boys don’t care for it.

A near zero traffic one turn loop by N Hills that’s 2 miles a lap. But, 100 feet per mile elevation.

Well not exactly zero.

I wonder if gravel cyclists are looked at the same way as often we’re on roads where there is basically zero traffic