Is it too late to go with an Industrial feel instead of a military feel? There is a war/police action/occupation going on. Sports are a bit of a break from that "trip", so being reminded of it stirs up emotions.

When there is no war, you can describe a tough football game as a "war". Where there is a war, it is sort of bad taste--people are dying. That's just me.

Considering Monk's recent "Gay for Tom" post maybe a rainbow motif would be appropriate. Actually, I agree that military themes aren't real cool considering what's been going on the past few years.

Yeah- exactly. That is my concern.

I saw a commentary somewhere on the web by a fashion designer- darned if I don't remember the search- maybe Wallpaper magazine (a hip, style/desing magazine) that said he was enamoured by the US Marines MARPAT camouflage scheme.

The background to RED TEAM is MARPAT pixelated pattern.

I figured if this guy- a real designer- was getting on board it could be safe ground. It has a "patriotic" feel to it.

By the way, the RED in RED TEAM is an acronym on the uniform for RACE EXPEDITIONARY DETACHMENT.

There is a triathlon icon that incorporates a trident for the swim, sword for the bike and lightening bolt for the run. It is a very direct inspiration from the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit's insignia- which envokes a sense of speed and strength to me.

Anyway- looking for opinions pro/con on this type of look.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"a "military" feel ....Will people be alienated from that type of design or attracted to it? "

Not really sure what you're getting at but here's my $.02.

Anything even remotely associated with the military will attract a certain type of personality but alienate others. To give you an example there is a scuba diving shop that I used to go to that had definate "military feel" because it was run by a bunch of ex commando military types. The shop seemed to attract a lot of "men in uniform" type customers - cops, prison guards, military guys, firemen, etc but anybody else seemed to go to the other dive shop in town, including 98% of the women scuba divers. In fact, the reason I stopped going there was because my wife didn't like the shop as much as the other place. It was just the attitude that the owners had that either turned on or off certain customers. The shop was kind of on the high testosterone side and people either felt comfortable with that or they didn't.

I don't really know how a cycling team can have a "military feel" to it since it's not really a sport associated with the military, so unless the uniforms are done as copies of the armed forces uniforms, it's not likely people would make the connection. But based upon your description, I'd personally stay neutral and suggest that the Formula One team look might have a more neutral general appeal.

Hmmm. I am starting to lean this way. That is the insight I am looking for. Thanks.

The circumstance you outlined with the other SCUBA shop is exactly what we are trying to avoid. The current "Formula 1" uniform has been a hit with both genders. No one backed away from it. it was as close a design as I've ever seen that everyone was pleased with.

This RED TEAM thing is a departure. Very odd looking. When you see it from even fifteen feet away it is utterly unremarkable. As you get closer it reveals more details.

The uniform design is "interactive": There is a "Data Panel" on the upper right rear of the jersey to record your data- contact information, name, etc. in case of an accident.

Kim Ross is on a cruise right now with her new fiancee' If she were here I would throw the design up here for your commentary.

I though perhaps it would also be a "Lara Croft", "Ghost Recon" gamer motif appeal design too.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

From your description, the RED TEAM sounds like good design, which is the primary criteria. Personally, I'm attracted to the utilitarian design of 'covert ops' gear. Too many Bond films in my youth perhaps. If the design is good, that is what will stand out.

As far as the message of the design vis a vis cerveloguy's post: I'd say be true to your own sense of design. You have a military background and an obvious affinity for military history (books, gear, etc), no reason to shy away from it.

As long as your shop doesn't become a bastion for tri-head militia types (you are from Michigan, right?), I don't think an obscure skin suit on an obscure team in an obscure sport is going to have any impact whatsoever on your bottom line.

Look at some of the 'uniforms' worn by adventure racers, definately a special ops je ne sais quoi.

Is this for the tri team, the cycling team, or both?

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*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"

Tom,

Off topic...I have tried to email you for the past week with no reply. I read on another thread that another person has had the same problem. Let me know if you have recieved these emails, and just not had time to respond.

Matt Steinmetz

mesteinmetz@bsu.edu

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

For what it's worth (I could never figure out what FWIW meant, I guess I'm slow...) I think the design sounds cool. It'd be nice to see a pic of something similar, but from what it sounds like I think I'd like it more than most of the other "flashy" stuff out there.

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"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live."
-H.D.Thoreau

Hey Matt,

Hmmm. I'm seeing a pattern here. We are using a spam filter called "Qurb". It puts non-recognized e-mail addresses in a "Qurb" box that gets compressed, and I presume, eventually deleted every so often.

So, if I haven't authorized your e-mail address your e-mail goes into that box and I will not see it. The Qurb counter says it has collected over 25,000 e-mails since October 10. I wager chances are some of these e-mails are going in there.

Here's another problem. I have authorized several e-mail addresses that, despite the authorization, still wind up in the Qurb box. We had that happen to a customer today who said I didn;t answer his e-mails throughout the day. I thought I never received them. I even went into the Qurb box and searched for his e-mail. Nothing.

Also, we recently switched to all new computers on XP using Outlook for mail and I previously used Netscape, which is what I trained on. I am not proficinet with Outlook yet, and have probably lost items by mishandling them.

My apologies. We are getting many more e-mails through now that we were even 5 months ago when we were effectively out of operation.

Send em to me again if you can...

tom.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

It's tough for anyone to visualize this without me putting up an image for proper critique. actually, j-son actually had the reaction I was hoping for.

Interesting mix of responses. Thanks for the feedback. More later......

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom,

Just emailed you

Matt

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

Blue stater's commentary aside, my guess is that if the literature is liking the military motif, the industry will create a market in it. You would be getting in on the ground floor. You rarely go wrong with patriotic.

Second thought; your description sounds cool. Of course I also think the digitized look of the marines' forest pattern looks really cool, especially up close.

If your designer will let you put the pattern up, what do you think about pitching it or a variation for Slowtwitch? Just me, but it sounds more appealing than the Peaceful Tribe effort. (Not to take anything away from it. I appreciate the effort and sentiment.)

Roger that-

Checking. Wait one.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Bingo. 5 by 5 in the clear. got it.

I also just got an e-mail from an apparently rather intoxicated ex-girlfriend that I will answer first- having nothing to do with bike fitting.

So, this may take a moment.....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

need to see it to judge it. design is subtle and detail-oriented and can evoke subconscious feelings, so describing it with words is not adequate (IMHO)

'wolf

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__________________________________________________
What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

Hey Tom, can you confirm if my e mail address has been authorised? As I have a feeling that my mails relating to my s bend status may have been Qurbed!

Back on thread, although I am not a trekkie and my only excursion into fantasy fiction has been LOTR, I would be interested to see the "Wrath of Khan"type design as I think an assym pattern could look really cool also post the RED TEAM design and we can comment on how appropriate it could be in these times. I have to say that I didn't like the bright "70s" green in the F1 style kit and preferred the black and grey kit.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Tom, pick the one you like best. nobody wants to feel like a soldier when they're riding their bike for fun and competition...

the formula 1 sounds the coolest...just my opinion. if you have women on your team, you really need to consider that. women won't be happy wearing things that make them feel too masculine, and they won't be happy wearing a uniform they don't like...military would probably be the least liked by any female riders you've got.

you could always ask your team if they're in place.

i hope you keep posting here, as this board would loose alot otherwise...(I hate it when people get all jacked up about "catagories...it's so lame--TNO does alot of that and it's just so queer).

kittycat

Tom, I think that if the design has a military look to it, you are definitely going to alienate some of your potential customers. Have you thought of carrying two styles? If you could do that (and I'm not sure the economics would work), then the Clancyesque styke would be a good complement to a more standard look.

Shouldn't this be on the 'Tri fashion plate' page? Your really just trying sell us your uniforms aren't you Tom. If that is your real name.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Because this design is so left (or maybe right?) of center we will definately offer two designs- RED TEAM perhaps and then a more general appeal uniform, maybe a similar, updated version of Formula 1.

In general, we don't sell the uniforms. We usually give them to key personalities and highly visible people in our area and on the Internet counting on the fact that they will get the look and logo out there.

Yup: Guerilla marketing.

Interestingly, the current version of RED TEAM doesn't say Bikesport anywhere on it. It has a low-vis, "unattributable" logo- the crown and oval without the writing in it. It is very odd.

I will post the design for your comments. I was soliciting feedback to see if opinions were entirely objectionable. Looks like, from this thread at least- there will some people who dig it, others who aren;t into it. I think it will be a hit with the techno-thriller, gaming/extreme athlete, male crowd but not so much with the more liberal, politically correct customer.

-Something for everyone, or at least most people. For the record, Kim Ross (our graphics designer and web administrator at Intuitive Business Solutions) thinks RED TEAM is a turd.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Not that it helps but I kind of agree with everyone's comments in this thread.

That MARPAT pattern actually has little Eagle, Globes and Achons scattered throughout the fabric. The are a little smaller than say the size of a dime. Kinda neat. Just a little tid-bit of information for you in case you didn't know. Someone had actually suggested to me that I should custom paint my new P3 in a metallic version similar to the desert MARPAT pattern. Thought it was funny but I guess if it was done right it would look kind of neat.

As far as cycling uniforms, I have alway liked to keep them simple for the most part.

Anyway, good luck.

Personally, attracted to it. Simple reason, I much prefer the understated to the bright look at me type of color scheme.

we need photos to give worthwhile opinion.

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Where would you want to swim ?

You're right. When Kim get back I'll be on that.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com