You prove my point by using obviously excessive examples. You can come up with examples to say anything. I still have yet to hear one good reason to not wear a helmet.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

[quote]I don't understand not wearing your seatbelt. Sure it's a perosonal choice, but how does wearing a seatbelt negatively effect you?[/quote]

it would mean I'd get my ice cream 3 seconds slower than I would without it. Also, I never went above 30mph while driving without my seatbelt. Surely if I can survive a bike crash at over 30mph with nothing but a piddly little bike helmet on, then I can survive a crash at less than 30mph with an entire car to protect me.

so if my examples of people getting severe head injuries while on their own two feet proves why you should wear a helmet while on a bike, then why don't you wear a helmet while doing everything else in your life? BTW...believe it or not, the examples I provided are true.

a better question is, why do you stop with just a regular bike helmet? why not a full face helmet with body armor and knee and elbow pads?? how many football players have suffered crippling injuries with all that padding on?

"Surely if I can survive a bike crash at over 30mph with nothing but a piddly little bike helmet on, then I can survive a crash at less than 30mph with an entire car to protect me."

Uhhhh not unless you're wearing a bike helmet in your car. The impact of your head hitting the windshield is likely harder than the impact of your bike hiting the pavement since car accidents are typically very quick decelerations where as bike accidents are more "skidding"...typically.

Hey and if that 3 seconds is so precious to you that it's worth making a windshield star with your squash...so be it, we all enjoy the free entertainment....but it's not free is it...

~Matt

somebody really needs to buy you a sense of humor and a side of sarcasm for christmas.

p.s....I'm done with this topic. please let us all know when you pass a law telling us the safest way to wipe our asses.

Why is it people are always "done with this topic" when they've run out of logical arguements and end up reverting to to insults and ignorance?

I have no intention of passing any law or even supporting passing a law. I'm a huge believer in personal choice. However it is people making personal choices, bad ones usually, that give so much fodder to the "law makers" to pass more laws.

Had most people *chosen* to wear a seatbelt, knowing that the loss to gain ratio is far and away in favor of wearing one, we would not have a seatbelt law. Not wearing one under almost any circumstance is just plain ignorant, yes even driving 30MPH 1 mile from your house. I think we've all heard the statistic that most accidents happen within 5 miles from home. Not to mention the fact that maybe you'e only driving 30, but what about that drunk SOB doing 60 that T-bones you 1/2 a mile from your house? I think you can follow the same logic for bike helmets.

As far as comparing wearing a helmet on a bike to walking around; I'd suspect that if one did a little research on percentile of damaging impacts while on ones bike versus walking around that you would find being on a bike to be FAR more dangerous, thus a helmet.

No we can't protect ourselves from everything, but when a simple solution to a problem comes along it's rather ignorant not to incorporate it.

Humorless...maybe, true most likely.

~Matt

Man what I said went so far over your head it's not even funny. Keep those perfect examples coming.


So when will I get one good reason for not wearing a helmet?

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

[reply]So when will I get one good reason for not wearing a helmet?[/reply]

You obviously ignored my post. She was almost killed BECAUSE she was wearing a helmet. I gave a couple of other good reasons too. But go ahead and ignore any contrary information that might get in the way of a quality foregone conclusion.

It all adds up to personal choice, which the last time I checked this was supposed to be a free country. Not that it is thanks to intruding increasingly socialist govt...but anyway. The several people who stated as FACT that our insurance premiums were going up substantially because of people not wearing helmets need to put up the data. It's not the responsibility of the person calling BS to refute it (trixy, reblAK and myself). It's the responsibility of the claimant to prove it.

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I think it revolves around a "coolness" factor. It much cooler and badass NOT to wear a helmet. I was trying to get the kids' heads around to the fact that their "COOL" X-games idols wouldn't be where they are WITHOUT the helmet ... plus it gives them extra places to put their sponsorship stickers.

For every hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) examples there are of something being beneficial (ie: wearing a helmet, using a seat belt), there is always *one* (or two, or a handful) of the one freak time it either did, or may have, contributed to making an accident worse.

<< She hit the railing with her shoulder and caught the chinstrap on the edge of a railing...broke her neck. Without the helmet she would have likely sustained minor injuries. >> would have likely... meaning, no way to know for sure. Maybe she would have had her throat slashed by the railing, or worse. Or not. We'll never know.

Bummer for her, but she was a statistical anomoly. I know that doesn't make her feel any better, but that's what it is.

For every "I was thrown clear of the car, so I survived, if I'd had my seatbelt on, I'd be dead now" story there is, there are tens of thousands of people who were saved, or injured less, by virtue of wearing their seatbelt.



I'm totally for choice, do your own thing, etc. But there are very few VALID reasons for choosing not to wear a helmet while riding a bike. Other than, that you can.

Enjoy your choice. Knock yourself out.

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float , hammer , and jog

Kramer's managed to hitch a ride on the back of a motorcycle.

KRAMER (shouting over the cycle's engine): Hey! You ever been in an accident?

BIKER: About five years ago. I was going down this very road. Same time of day, going about the same speed I'm going now...there was a rock in the road. Couldn't have been more than a pebble. Never really saw it! Lost control of the bike, went flyin' about a hundred feet - came down right on my head. Cracked it wide open! Blood and stuff was just splattered all over the road, there...I broke every bone in my face. Hey, you know, when they found me, my eyes were hanging out of their sockets? Yeah, they pronounced me dead at the scene. I was in a coma for...well, they told me about a year...said I'd be a vegetable for life. Yeah, but I showed 'em. Ever since then I always wear a helmet! <The biker goes into a turn.> Lean! <Kramer yells.>

Skydiving: "You get up that high, I think that helmet is wearing YOU for protection"

You and I have had this argument before...I can't believe I've fallen into it again.

I don't think it's necessary for me to wear a helmet when I ride my bike 5mph from the gym on campus to my office 3/4 of a mile away, on a wide path away from cars. Just like I don't believe I need to wear my seatbelt if I drive from my office on campus over to the gym on campus at < 20mph. I feel pretty safe about both scenarios, and think the helmet/seatbelt is unneccesary and even excessive. also,the pads in my helmet are usually soaked from my ride in, and I don't feel like putting it back on my head after taking a shower.

maybe that's too risky for you. It's not for me and a lot of other people. Having said that, I wear a helmet and seatbelt 99% of the time.

it seems to me, people like you and MJuric only claim to believe in personal choice, and would much rather have a law taking any personal judment out of the equation. If that's how you feel...then so be it. I do not care to live in a society that doesn't allow people to use their own reasonable judgment. Unfortunately, that means I don't agree with a lot of the crap going on in the USA. I guess I'll have to move to antarctica.

so that's my reason for not wearing a helmet on occasion. I'm sure you won't agree that it's a good one...but fortunately I don't have to care (yet).

Now...how about some good reasons from you about why you don't wear a full face helmet and body armor while doing something involving a lot more risk than travelling on a bike at < 10mph? ie..when you are out on a busy road biking at 20-40 mph. I'm sure you've read the increasing number of posts about people being hit by cars...so I'm sure it has to do with an acceptable level of risk to you...right?

ok...now I'm done...seriously, I am...maybe

While I don't have the hard data, stating the additional costs for cyclists in accidents, with or without helmets, it's pretty obvious that cyclists without helmets are likely to suffer great injuries than cyclists with helmets. These costs are incurred by the healthcare system (not just private insurance companies) as society at large.

The end result is that these additional costs (like all other health care costs), get passed on to those covered by insurance as well as (again) society at large. To suggest that someone else pays (ie a benevolent insurance company LOL) is simply folly.

Financial breakdowns of how much additional cost is incurred by cyclists injured without helmets is inconsequential. The costs happen, regardless o how minor the additional costs my allegedly be, regardless of whether we can accurately attribute them. The lack of documentation does not mean the costs don't exist.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

It appears only those with a brain big enough to figure out wearing a helmet when cycling is a good idea, have brains worth protecting. Only they need to wear helmets :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

 please let us all know when you pass a law telling us the safest way to wipe our asses.[/quote]

For women it's front to back in order to avoid getting fecal matter in the vagina. For men just getting the most of the big chunks would be a step in the right direction.

Don't forget to wash your hands.

Gary Mc

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

Not really. The only statistical correlation between helmet usage and injury rates is for young children getting strangled by their helmet straps when their helmets become trapped.

Are you implying by your post that statistically, children are in more danger for wearing a helmet? Children, who have a higher head/body size ratio than adults, and are more likely than adults to suffer head injuries in the event of a fall?

Secondly, you're completely wrong in your assertion that there are no statistical correlations between head injuries and helmet usage. Are you serious?

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

The problem is, "they" don't keep stats for all the injuries and deaths that were prevented. Since that of course would be impossible.

<< The only statistical correlation between helmet usage and injury rates is for young children getting strangled by their helmet straps when their helmets become trapped. >>

Become trapped in/by what?? (seriously, I don't understand what exactly their helmet would be getting trapped in or by, I'm not actually trying to be a smartass here)

Young children also get strangled by venetian blinds and extension cords. And lots of other things, plastic bags, etc. Bart Simpson gets strangled weekly by Homer. (ok, this last part was intentional smart-assedness. I sometimes can't help myself)

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float , hammer , and jog

All I'm implying is that this person was not a "statistical anomoly".

I can go on further and refer to discussions I had with a friend who has a PhD in fracture mechanics of the skull, and whose conclusion was that the serious injuries (i.e. not cracked skull/cuts requiring stitches) a helmet can prevent - those from a direct, blunt impact - the head can cope with well anyway, so the helmet just moves the threshold a little higher. However, tangential blows, which cause shear rotations of the brain in the skull and which the are poorly coped with, could potentially be exacerbated since the effective diameter of the head is increased. Helmets would not help a great deal in resisting penetrative blows either.

[reply]Become trapped in/by what?? (seriously, I don't understand what exactly their helmet would be getting trapped in or by, I'm not actually trying to be a smartass here) [/reply]

They get the chin straps caught on the handlebars when they screw up and use the front brakes too hard. Obviously we are talking about something pretty rare I'd think. However, I actually saw that almost happen last weekend. A girl (maybe 8yrs old) locked her front brakes, went over the front, hooked her chinstrap on the gearshift lever (I think) and it popped the strap in half. I guess if it held it might have done the same thing to her that it did to my friend?

Regarding the statistical anomaly...very true. I was just amused that House refused to see any *possible* reason why helmets weren't the greatest thing since the bagel slicer. Every invention has a downside. For me riding last weekend 135 miles in heavy crosswinds with the helmet strap whistling in my ear was annoying as hell. My left ear was slightly deaf for several hours from the constant noise. Since I make my living with my ears this is an absolute no-no. :(

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I would say that a person who sustained an injury as a result of wearing a helmet during a crash, as opposed to it preventing an injury, is definitely a statistical anomaly. Unless you have statistics to prove otherwise, that's a hard sell.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Aha, at Interbike I saw just the thing - a little stretchy ear cover that clips to your helmet straps and supposedly cuts down windnoise. I even have a free trial pair!

(snip)

[reply]you are not placing a burden on the public at large.[/reply]

Well, that's not entirely true....

If you crash without a helmet and spill your brains all over the pavement, the people riding with you have to witness this, stay with you while the paramedics come, and then someone has to clean up all your grey matter.

I bet neither your riding buddies nor the paramedics relish the idea of seeing what should be inside your head move to the outside.

And, yes, I'm one of those who NEVER rides without a helmet -- it's saved my life more than once. I will also NOT ride with someone who does not have a helmet for the reasons stated above.