Like I said, I hope we get to hear another longish interview from her on what she thought of the race. It looks like we have all come up with all the good perfect excuses for her for getting dropped and losing 6 places, I just want to know if any of them are actually legit...(-;

For all we know it could have been a great race for her, maybe she did a hard 10 miler the day before. But then we have to start asking questions about the coaching I guess.. It was a pretty big race, I would hope that any coach would have rested her for it to make sure she got a good result. This bullshit of training through biggish races is really disappointing to athletes, I see no good whatsoever from this strategy..

No way she did a hard 10 miler the day before, even in the heaviest of training she won't be doing stuff like that.

I know for a fact she was in Mammoth doing hard workouts last week at altitude with Shalane. I have photos of it. She may have done some easy stuff for a few days leading into this to freshen a small amount but it's obvious she has a lot of accumulated fatigue right now, which is exactly as it should be. She's behind the best women and if she has any chance at catching up in time to make the Olympic squad she has to run a crapton right now. This was not that important of a race for her development.

I was passing along an explanation I have read in several places, hence the word "purported." Perhaps running at Mammoth is easier than living out of a suitcase moving from training camp to training camp and traveling around the world for ITU races. But if it isn't and her family cannot be with her, then I would agree that the decision to change sports makes no sense.

Somewhat scary photo having seen so many photos of Jorgensen. I'm assuming it's mainly just the angle. Since I'm just a slow old amateur trigeek, if I ever run a hard session on that beautiful track, I'm going to enjoy a nice big meal after I'm done. :)

She has stated that she switched to running full time because she enjoyed it more and wanted a new challenge. Other people have conjectured that baby was a factor. Andrew Talansky has pointed to family as a factor for his switch to triathlon. In any case I bet she and her coach thought she would have had a better result otherwise they wouldn’t have done the race. But maybe not, maybe they just wanted to see how she did coming out of altitude.

If it turns out it was not her best sport - WOW...

Olympic Gold Medalist, lots of ITU wins, a long win streak. It would be amazing to see her be better at anything compared to what she did in triathlon.

Maybe she just had a bad day, it happens to athletes, they even have periods of poor results/training. I feel that we sometimes forget that when we watch outliers.

Was only a few months ago she ran an incredible indoor 5k and everyone was reacting completely different.

She also did just come down from a high altitude camp and she is very early into this new training process so she is most likely still finding out how she responds best, etc.

Agreed. These races are important but they are not the goal for Gwen. These results are good for her as she gains more motivation and experience for what she needs.

This 10k was a championship style race. The races she did well in the past were not this style. Success in Championship style races require experience, which she is trying to learn. When she gets to Marathon Trials and possible 10k Olympic trials, it will be the same style of racing.

Also, the competition was much better at this race and if she was off her game by the slightest %, it would be shown.

The one downside that i continue to hear is the obsession with a certain mileage. Jerry's group is known for mileage and it didn't take long for her to ramp up the mileage. I just wonder if that jump from her low mileage approach to a goal of 100+MPW will make her or break her. The videos we've seen always show her rolling that achillies/PF.

Gwen will be fine. She'll continue to get better. I'm rooting for her

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Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching

agreed. Letsrun has an interview with her,
“I feel like I’m doing marathon training,” Jorgensen said. “This past month, I was up at altitude in Mammoth Lakes and the goal was to just try to build those miles and get that fatigue in the legs, the marathon fatigue.”

goal achieved I guess ;-)

trials on Feb 29 and Gwen still needs a qualifier, this race would not have been on my list of races to peak for, either..

interesting on that list of qualifiers, I see Julia Webb at 2:44..

She also had a baby between sports, so there are more variables then we see from within the performance. Everyone responds to pregnancy differently and I know she struggled a lot post partum with her training.

I would agree on the downside you mentioned as well. Another potential problem area I see is her lack of really any muscle mass. Simply going off what I see visually and what I understand what she is doing for mileage, I worry a bit about her durability. IMO she needs some muscle mass to be able to sustain that type of mileage. Especially now that that great majority of her aerobic training is now weight bearing with running as it wasn't previously. I think she is treading a fine line, but that is what comes with performing at that level. I just feel that she has always had a very good grasp on these areas and might be letting go a bit too much.

I think what you meant to say was "SPOILER - USA CHAMPIONSHIP 10K RESULTS"

Instead of being this guy.

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<The Dew Abides>

If people do not want to read about sport, they should stay away from sites where sports are discussed.

Spoiler is so 1995

There's way too many people that would get smoked by Gwen talking smack in here.

So she ran a 10k championship race with one qualifier...probably not smart to be honest. Unless it's more about championship stress than not. She ran at half-marathon Championships and 10k Championships...did she qualify for the half or was that a sponsor exemption. Both times it rained and the surface was wet. She again did not wear spikes on the track, and being a wet surface, that could have helped. Either way, the time she put up would smoke all of us.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Are you sure about that? I saw a post showing the Nike Fly 4% she wore. They we're spiked.

https://runningmagazine.ca/...usatf-championships/

Good look! Didn't see those when I saw the post originally. Been awhile since I've used track spikes...but are folks really using big shoes now?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

This is all wrong. You do not win a marathon carrying extra weight. She’s already at a huge disadvantage for being taller than most.

I would almost say her biggest disadvantage is in the fact that she's attempting this in a 3 year olympic window. I just want to see how she and her team take her from a very low/moderate run volume that led to huge itu success to what marathon mileage demands of competition *usually* dictate. I think if she makes it through all of this healthy on the start of the marathon a bigger success than the actual result.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I would agree that carrying extra weight will not win you a marathon, but I never said anything about carrying extra weight. There is a difference between carrying extra weight and having a bit more muscle mass. People tend to miss this part.

I would argue that carrying a bit more muscle mass will provide her with more durability in her training, especially being a female. Especially when she is trying to go from a moderate mileage load to a higher mileage load that so many have expressed in this thread.

I've worked with enough female athletes and seen their performance increase with putting on just a bit of muscle mass to have confidence in this as well. Far too many times have I see the "I cannot gain weight" mindset that you have rear its ugly face and leave the athlete injured on the sidelines on race day.

It is not wrong as I have seen this pattern improve female athletes marathon performances.

You might not win when big but you can train big. From what I've read the east African's put on a fair amount of weight in their off season.

You will be faster with 5 extra pounds than with 1 pound underweight. And I mean underweight not based on some silly bmi chart or something like that but being below what your individual lowest performance weight is.

You need to be fit and light. But at a certain point everything just falls apart. Of course you need to be very lean to get to that point. So it is not all too common.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

And I am confident that one of the best coaches in the world with a large backing had a better idea of what the right weight and muscle makeup is for her than random posters on an Internet forum.

True. And I think we can trust Jerry that he trains and prepares her in the best possible way.

It only drives me crazy when people think the lighter is the better. That only works to some extent. It has nothing particularly to do with Gwen though. I guess she is fine and wouldn't be so strong otherwise.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

She runs well and wins the 10k at Stanford, and folks say she needs to race the 10k and not run the marathon. So, she trains like a true marathoner and comes to a 10k with high altitude high mileage in her legs and finishes not that far back from one of the sickest last 1600m’s seen courtesy of Huddle, and folks think Gwen is off track. Yes, Gwen said she’s disappointed, but it was good race and I don’t understand these sort expectations - no one ever expected Haile, Bekele, Kipchoge to jump back to the track after taking on the marathon (Mo has jumped back and forth with much criticism of his performances in the marathon and back on the track). Yes, Gwen needs speed and the ability to change gears midrace to race an Olympic marathon, but she also needs the strength that comes with the mileage - she needs to cut herself some slack but more importantly, her coach needs to think of her mental well being when choosing races because having her go head to head with Huddle in the 10k after her Mammoth stint may have been naive in that regard.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

her coach needs to think of her mental well being when choosing races because having her go head to head with Huddle in the 10k after her Mammoth stint may have been naive in that regard. //

This is what I was alluding to, if you are going to race someone, then prepare them for that particular race. Doesnt mean changing the training plan much or mileage, just make sure she is mostly rested and has a decent chance at a good race. Sure she fell off Molly's scorching pace, but she also let 5 more ladies run away from here too, and barley out kicked the next one.


I just think for"some" athletes, it is not really doing anything positive to throw them into races broken down and tired. But there are some that can do fine with that mentally, they actually thrive on it. I just dont know where Gwen's head is in this new sport of hers. I would tend to pick races that she could be in the hunt for, which so far seems to be the case. Maybe she was rested for this race, I dont really know, but sounds like perhaps not too much..

Nobody expected her to beat Huddle (although post Boston and the Mini it was possible she wasn't going to be on) but Huddle wasn't the only other woman in the race. She lost to Rochelle Kanuho. When the race really began with 1000 to go, she had nothing and the first 9000 couldn't have been run more perfectly for her with Huddle in the front running metronomic 77s with zero surges. That's not exactly a WR pace and it completely zapped her. I get it that she trained through the race and she has almost 2 years more to get things right but the way she got dropped in the 10K (not just by Huddle) and the way she got dropped in Pittsburgh by B level Americans indicates a regression after her mind-blowing 15:15 debut in February. She's with probably the best coach in the world so, if anyone can figure things out, it will be Shoemaker. It will be interesting to see if Shoemaker has her run a fall marathon or not.