Aaah, "not so fast, my friend"...the SRAM 10sp MTB derailleurs have clutches AND are "exact actuation" (AKA, 1:1 pull ratio) and so they work perfectly fine with both 10sp and 11sp Red shifters. (It's the 11sp SRAM MTB derailleurs that went away from 1:1)

I'm using a GX10 rear derailleur on my Fuji Jari with 10sp Red shifters, Force front derailleur, 53-39 Quarq Cinqo crankset, Sunrace 11-42 cassette.

My buddy's Stinner Refugio is set up with the same GX10 rear derailleur, 11sp Red shifters, Yaw front derailleur, 52-34 110bcd crankset, Shimano 11-40 cassette. As he likes to say, he has "alls the gears" ;-)

Both setups work awesome...although the extra wide spread on the Stinner's chain rings requires quite "exact" positioning for best performance.

It's still possible to mix and match somewhat these days...

You're welcome ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Agreed, but they also need to be geared high (since they are ridden on pavement too)...I personally think that's often given short shrift for these bikes...and most of that is driven by the compromises undertaken to run 1X.

I've actually heard a few high level gravel riders say lately that they're "done with 1X" and want to go back to 2X for their all-road bikes. As I described in the post above, it's really not all that difficult to get "alls the gears" :-)

And really, the degree to which they should be geared low is dependent on the local terrain. For you or me, we have steep roads and trails to take them on...so yeah, I want MTB-low gearing. However, in the "flatlands", maybe not so much.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

YOU need them geared high ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I run 2x... everyday is 52/34 with 11/32 . I'll use 11/34 cassette on for the gravel climby rides.

i'm running 50x34 and 11-32. 34x32 is not small enough for me. SRAM says no can to bigger than 32t on wifli. i don't need new gearing bad enough to need it before jan, and i think jan is going to be a big intro month.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Salsa Warbird is a good choice. I have the Salsa Cutthroat but that is more of a drop bar mountain bike than anything else.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

Hi UK2ME,

Watch for a 30-46 SpideRing that will retrofit onto all Si cranks. Not positive about retail availability yet, but it's been in road testing for the last year or so.

Cheers,
Damon

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Specialized Crux Carbon and running 40mm Maxxis Ramblers. Ultegra Di2. Compact cranks with an 11/30t cassette. No complaints at all. Older frame that doesn’t have thru axel.

I would like to get an newer frame with thru axel and a new wheelset that is wider internal......maybe a Hunt wheelset.

Cool that you guys have been able to make parts like that work- But my point is that manufacturers are slow to respond to this trend. And they have been responding with parts and groups that are only "half there".
Consumers will buy purpose built gravel components that work- Shimano could make Ultegra and Dura-Ace level gravel components with low gears, lighter cassettes, clutch derailleurs, etc.
Same for SRAM- People would buy clutch/gravel ETAP with low gears.

Yeah, but "gravel" isn't about waiting for mainstream manufacturers to make the stuff you want to ride. In fact, it's been pretty much the opposite.

Personally, I think people put WAY to much import on drivetrain components being all "matchy-matchy", when many times it isn't necessary...or, even desirable (if it limits your gearing choices, e.g.)...but, maybe that's just me :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Not gravel bike specific and replying to general thread.

I'm debating a CX bike vs mtb.

2 things- I like the mtb because I can use it when I'm coaching athletes on the run. I like MTB better for just getting around easier on different surfaces..BUT i don't think i'm going to be doing anymore MTB stuff because I more enjoy the crushed gravel pathway/bridal trails much more than "single" track....I crash every single time on the MTB just from aggressiveness/stupid/slips, etc.


I guess the answer is CX with the wider tires than normal road width but not the normal wide MTB width.

Thoughts?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I don't feel like my parts have to "match"- just work well.
I would run a Shimano DI2 mtb derailleur if it would work with DI2 and road front derailleur.

I used to use a SRAM 11-36 11 speed cassette with an Ultegra long cage derailleur. It worked well enough.

Just picked up a used 2016 Giant TCX. It's Ultegra Di2 1x with a 40t Wolf chainring, running CX-1 wheels and WTB Resolute tubeless. I've always preferred Shimano over SRAM, so that was a big reason for me to look used. It'll be my one bike for gravel, cx, and road so I'll be setting it up 52x36 up front as well as a road-specific wheelset by the time spring and road racing comes around. For now, I'm just trying to get lost riding the forest service roads around Central Oregon while planning my version of an Overland triathlon. I've had it on roads, singletrack and some super-climby FS roads, in sand-like dirt, rough, rocky surface and everything in between. It's been great!

If you want 1x (I did too) then don't go with my choice.

I have a Canyon Grail CF SL 7.0

So you don’t like the grail?
Why not? The bars?

I ride a Focus Mares CX with Force 1 because well.. I compete in cyclocross races and gravel.

I'm currently drooling over my buddies new Ibis Hakka MX. What a nice machine. I'd probably go Di2 2x if I didn't race cyclocross.

I love my Grail, didn't buy it for the bars (but don't mind them). It's just not available as a 1x option. I wanted 1x but in the end went with the Grail with 2x because other factors played in favour of that choice.

Gravel bikes need to be geared however they need to be geared.

Bottoming out your gearing is a gigantic performance killer. And when it happens, it tends to be during climbs, which is a place where you don't want to be paying gigantic performance killers. Gravel exacerbates the issue, since limited rear wheel traction makes it more difficult to produce extra bailout torque by standing.

Yesterday, the middle of my gravel ride featured a pretty steep fire road to the top of a foothill: 1.4 miles of loose rutted stuff at around a 12% average gradient.
I was in my 22" bottom gear for most of the climb, and although I averaged a bit under 5mph, there were spots where that gear was getting uncomfortable.
Another guy on the ride is about my climbing equal on road rides, but he was on his CX bike with a 34" bottom gear. He was the last person to the top, taking more than 40% longer than me. His bike was more than ten pounds lighter than mine too, but he just couldn't pedal the thing effectively on that hill.
And while that's an extreme case, I see stuff like it all the time.

If the choice has to be made, I'd generally recommend erring toward having sufficient low gears than high gears: roadies on average seem to have far more issues with the former, and an inflated sense of what they need from the latter.

But gravel bikes are also capable of being competent road bikes, which can merit road gearing. What exactly that means is very circumstantial... although roadies sometimes insist on higher top gears than they have much use for, some mountain-esque drivetrains can be lacking in the opposite direction. Spacing can also be an annoyance, if a gravel ride turns into a road ride.

The PNW is somewhat demanding in this regard. The gravel is mostly mountainous forest road, but gravel rides can involve plenty of connecting flat and hilly paved road. So having everything that a road bike would need, plus some extra bailout gears, is an attractive idea. But where to get those extra gears from? A triple? Going 1x with an 18-speed cassette? Stealthily hanging onto the saddle rails of the rider in front of you?

I just wrapped up a year-long experiment of riding to see if one bike could do it all. That included about 15 road, mixed surface and pure gravel races from basically a P12 75-mile / 10k of hard climbing/technical descending to DK to Fondos to 150-mile ride with 16.5k of climbing to Maunakea (which had the toughest gravel climbing by far). I covered a little over 12k miles on this rig.

Bike is an UPPER 1x with DA brifters and XRT RD, road and gravel wheelsets that I swapped tires for the terrain. I started with a 42 front, and 11-40 for road and 10-42 for gravel. This is backwards and limited by hub compatibility (moral of story: don’t buy King hubs if you want max flexibility). The 42 wasn’t enough for road race style events so I went up to 44 right away. More recently I’ve been using an 11-42 on road but find I don’t go to bailout gear very often (and I live in an area with some steep, pitchy climbs).

The ideal *current* setup for me is 44 x 11-40 for mixed surface, and 11 or 10-42 for gravel. On the road I very occasionally run out of gears on both ends but not often enough it’s an issue. The jumps are less noticeable than anticipated and as a former TTer, is something I’m sensitive to. With that in mind, the *ideal setup* for me is 44 x 10-40 12 spd for everyday and to a 42 for tough graveling. IMO there would be few concessions. The 10t road cassette is really the missing piece at moment but there will be a few good options in ‘19 to resolve that.

For most of us "mere mortals" though (i.e. folks without a P1/2 W/kg ratio), I highly recommend having gear ratios below 1:1 for gravel with decent climbs ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I've been loving my Ibis Hakka MX. I use it as my cyclocross and gravel bike. I have a 700C wheelset for cross and a 650b wheelset with 2.1" tires for fun. I even put slicks on it an rode century on the road 2 months ago.

This weekend the cross course was dry and loose. I switched to my 650b wheelset and it was so much fun. Where everyone with skinnier cyclocross tires were sliding out in the loose stuff I was just rolling through with plenty of traction.

I love my Diamondback Haanjo Trail.

My road bike takes ~30mm tires, and I typically ride 27-28mm tubeless (down to ~60psi). Gearing is 52/36 (and I can pop on a 34 easily enough) with a 11x28, 30, or 32 cassette. This handles 60% of the gravel/dirt that I ride.

For rockier rides or when I don't want to be as careful picking lines, I ride my cyclocross bike (Trek Boone), which has a relatively low BB for a cx bike (65mm), takes up to 40mm tires, and has geometry that enables me to get both a good road fit or a good cx fit (or something in between) without resorting to odd sized stems or anything. The only changes I make when running this bike as a dedicated gravel bike is I switch the chainrings from 44/36 to 48/34, I'll run a 11x32 cassette instead of 11x28, and a different saddle, slid about 1cm further back.

A lot of the current gravel offerings look nice, but I race both road and cx (so I need those bikes), and I have not seen a gravel bike that would be so much better than these two that I'd want to get it. As Slowman said, companies are still figuring out what they're doing with gravel bikes, so you really have to know the kind of riding *you* intend to do, then fit a bike to that. If you're not sure, a used cx bike might be a better way to get into it and figure out what you want going forward. It will likely be cheaper and more versatile.

Agree that 1:1 is an ideal rule of thumb. Adjust up or down depending on terrain and/or type of rider, esp on gravel. For many coming from a road or tri background, riding steep, loose stuff takes some time to figure out, and more gears will be better.

Thank you for talking some sense into this thread. It sounds like a lot of posts so far are just regurgitated from other threads and reflect very little experience.

One thing I would like to throw into the conversation is to look at gear inches, not gearing. A 38-40 mm tire is going to give a wheel diameter almost 5% bigger than a 25 mm. A 50 chainring on a 25 mm tire becomes a 48 chainring on a 40 mm tire. If Ted King maxed out at 119 gear inches and goes all the way down to 28 gear inches, I doubt many of us need to get much over 100 gear inches on a gravel bike.

Genuine question from somebody that respects your contributions: How much are you and your buddy hitting the 53/52 ring and dropping to the 11 or 13 cog (much above 70 rpm)? The gear range on that Stinner is incredible and definitely at the max of possibility with those components. If the 52 x 11 or 52 x 13 aren't being used though, it's essentially a 13 speed drivetrain. Maybe 14 if he's consistently riding 25 mph at a lower cadence. I'm 100% for making a bike your own and getting "alls the gears" but that setup seems a little complicated for the rest of us.

I know I'm making a big assumption that the 11 and 13 isn't getting used, but if it's not, the 52/34 x 11-40 setup equals a 365% range due to a couple gears being too tall to use. What's the range of an 11-40 cassette on its own? 364%.

If you're going to ride with the same 'gaps' in gearing, I would think that 1x could be fairly appropriate for others in a similar situation. Less weight, easier maintenance, The enginerdiness of you and your buddy make me *think* you have thought this through and know all that, so this is more for other readers.