I will say that I for one an not at all heistant in thinking that you not only have well cared for patients, you obviously are at the head of your field. Certainly FAR ahead of many of the Chiro guys I have known and worked with. (I do know one that is a DO and Chiro, very nice guy, very professional and also my personal Primary Care).

If it was more regulated in the US, I am certain that we would have better qualified guys and have a much better option for our American patients.

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Gatordawg-What country are you from? I feel bad for you wherever it is. Fortunately for us here in the United States we have two federal agencies that over look the supplement industry. The FDA and the FTC. So there is plenty of regulation.

Under the law, the FDA can, among other things, seize dietary supplements that pose a “significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury,” stop the sale of an entire class of dietary supplements if they pose an imminent public health hazard, refer for criminal action any company that sells a dietary supplement that is toxic or unsanitary, and obtain an injunction against the sale of a dietary supplement that has false or unsubstantiated claims.

And again, here is the USA, whenever the more "reputable" brands are sent to the lab, they almost always pass with flying colors. Yes, there are always unscrupulous companies that try to rip off the public, but this is certainly the exception, not the norm.

And about DSHEA, this law was unanimously passed. More letters were written in support of this law than any other in history. So it was more than Hatch that wanted this law, it was most of the American people.

Many people don't understand the extent that the FDA and FTC regulate my industry. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who have a vested interest in "bashing" my industry. Hopefully you have learned a little bit more about how our industry works.

If people don't know how my industry works, I can see why they would say it is unrugulated. But after looking at the facts, saying it is unregulated is like saying the world is flat.

Jeff

I believe that there is a role for viamins in a helathful lifestyle. However the law that passed placed vitmains in the same category as food upplements thus releasing them from the requirements of testing similar to how drugs are treated.

Vitamins have the potential to be dangerous and there needs to be more education about the dangerous potentials of vitamins. For example coagulationopathies with excessive vitamin E intake, p450 induction from st. john's wort, hypertension from ephedra, Herbal Phen-fen and ARDS. The list goes on and on.

My personal view is that there needs to be more testing and better education with regards to vitamins. Becuase the supplement industry is not required to do the same sorts of testing as the phramaceutical industry the research in this department has lagged behind considerably.

Then again this is my personal view and not reflected by the majority of the voting public.

As an interesting aside this issue of change the regualtion of vitamins resulted in the second largest public response to their congressional leaders. (letters phone calls etc.) This was second only to the vietnam war.

I guess the point that I am tying to make is that the vitamin industry is an industry, as is the drug industry. Take what people say with a grain of salt cuase they are always going to try to paint themselves in the most positive light.

Vita, I live in the USA, and know a good deal about the FDA and FTC, especially being in a medical profession.....Interesting the spin your industry puts out there for the American people.....Supplements are not put through the same rigors of testing, and quality assurance standards that medication are....If you believe otherwise, you have been brainwashed.

What standards do dietary supplements have to meet that the FDA and FTC regulate?

Show me the data about your testing lab results for dietary supplements. Also, I would like to know what lab they are done in and any disclosure that would be appropriate.

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Taku, I agree with your post, but IMO when it comes to knowledge of substances one is putting in their body, the effects it will have on them, their disease state(s) (if applicable), and any medications they might be taking, the Infomercial is the most prolific educator....This is what the dietary supplement industry wanted, a windfall.......Because it is "natural" doesn't mean it is safe....See nightshade and fox glove!...BTW, didn't the dietary industry scare the American public by saying that not passing this legislation would amount to the government taking away their rights and it would make medication costs soar???

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The advertising industry actually points to the pro vitamin industry ads as being one of the most effective ever.

Teh commercial that many people may remember has Mel Gibson in his kitchen taking some vitamins when a team of swat members brake into his house and put guns to his head and Gibson says something to the effect of "hey guys there only vitamins" The announcer says something along the lines of don't let the congress take away your vitamins.

Having said that I think that supplementation has its role in nutrition. In many cases it has a very very important role. However the danger is believing everything that the industry says. (again the same thing goes for the pharmaceuticals)

Point being I am a equal opportunity skeptic.

Thanks for jarring my memory on that commercial.....I totally agree with you....we affectionately refer to drug reps as "drug reptiles" and their adds are pretty bad too!....But that is a whole other topic to include price gouging!!!

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Taku, believe it or not, I agree with you 100%.

Our industry is not perfect. But no industry is. And when people make absolute statements about my industry, it makes my blood boil. Especially because we all know they are not true.

Jeff

I don't ever remember saying that supplements are put through the same tests as drugs. If I did, I definitely mis-typed, because I know they are not. But there are plenty of regulations that the companies are supposed to follow. Of course there will always be unscrupulous companies that don't follow these guidelines. But if anyone says that there are no regulations, and that no companies products meet label claims, I would have to question if they are "brainwashed".

My point is that the FDA and the FTC do regulate supplements. And many of the supplement manufacturers follow the same guidelines created by the FDA for the pharmaceutical industry for things like potency and manufacturing.

Besides, don't many pharmaceutical companies now make supplements? This tells me at least two things. One, I would think that their standards are O.K. When you say no supplements meet label standards, are you also referring to the supplements made by pharmaceutical companies? And secondly, there must be at least some effectiveness to supplements since the pharmaceutical companies are now making these products.

Jeff

To answer your question about why pharmaceutical company's make supplements, it's because of the money they can make off of them due to their lack of regulation......The Pharmaceutical company's want to make money, and they are not going to spend theirs making supplements to the same standards as medicinals.....I don't have an issue with vitamins, the essential things we need to survive, but I do with everything else that is called a dietary supplement....Look at the proliferation of chemical entities that fall under and are sold as"dietary" supplements and why companies prefer to market things as such?...It's all about the dollar.....Believe me, I'm not defending the Pharmaceutical industry because I think they rape the American people too, I know the standards they manufacture by are tightly regulated and tested, where as the supplement industry is not...My opinion, but if you can educate me further with some studies or lab tests with full disclosure, I'd be happy to look at them.

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Gatordawg-Just thought I would post one last time on this subject. I think we are beginning to beat a dead horse.

Before I post my links, I want to clarify my point that I think that there are plenty of reputable companies out there making dietary supplements, and when people say things like

"There have been studies done in regards to what are in the supplements people buy. Most don't have but a small fraction of what the label claims, some, don't even have the "active" ingredient"

it just makes my blood boil. I mean really, when you go to your local bike shop and buy a box of Gu, do you really believe there are no carbs in there? Or if you go to a pharmacy and buy Citri-cal, do you think they don't put any calcium in it? And try buying a bottle of garlic oil, when you open it up, you will definitely smell the garlic in it.

I agree that there are plenty of dishonest supplement manufacturers, but overall, I feel the industry is producing good products. And as I've posted, the FDA and FTC have plenty of regulatory power over our industry.

So if you are interested, here are a few links that will help you understand my industry a little better.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html

A good page from the FDA's web page that explains what they and the FTC can and can not regulate.

http://www.nnfa.org/...ices/science/gmp.htm

http://www.nnfa.org/...ence/bg_TruLabel.htm

Two good pages that explain GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) and TruLabel. (A program that assures potencies in supplements)

http://www.nowfoods.com/?cat_id=1495

A good page that explains their quality controls and talks a lot about their lab.

Hope this helps!!!

Jeff

thanks for the links I will read them when I get a chance


taku

Vita--I too will take a look at them..Thanks for the links.

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