I second that emotion! I just finished my fifth triathlon and I can't believe that people would draft in a race but they sure do. I crossed the finish line and all the top people were still gathered across the line and I heard one guy actually say that he caught on to the pace line!

I don't blame the people however since the we can't control that. I blame the race organizers. They need to protect their race from the cheats.

>>I don't blame the people however since the we can't control that. I blame the race organizers. They need to protect their race from the cheats.<<

In-freaking-credible. Don't blame the people? THE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES CHEATING. And, from the above post, THEY ARE DOING IT KNOWINGLY!

Solution for obvious cheats? Pump in the spokes like the Italian guy did in "Breaking Away".

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

OK, maybe that was poorly stated. It's just that some people will always take the easy road and I can't spend time being pissed off about things out of my control. I can expect the race organizers to do their jobs and hand out penalties as quickly as they cash my registration check.

That's funny Cathy, I was actually thinking about that and the movie this morning on my way to work...WWWooooooooo!

I was actually wondering if my rear mounted water bottle carrier that I only use during training could be rigged to launch frozen water bottles on demand rather than only when crossing railroad tracks or big bumps.

These guys were blaitently cheating, drafting, and blocking and laughing about it..I was able to overcome in the end (refused to let them beat me), but at a pretty big cost to my run.

spitting a big mouthful of sports drink over my head seems to back them off quick enough

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"on your Left"

In this age of cellphone cameras, take photos of them and post them to a web site. Publicize their race numbers.

These days the officials at least should be taking photos and applying draft penalties to the results.

photo will not work as evidence, it would need to be 15 seconds plus of video

you buying the camera then be willing to wait 3 days while we review the footage for the results? and you expect the refs to do this for free?

Do Races with USAT Referees, you will notice a lot of the cheaters numbers up on the penalty sheet at the end of the day

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"on your Left"

It seems to vary from race to race. One race we do the marshalls are very zealous and nobody gets away with it. At another race marshalls seem non existant and riders seem to push the envelop. At this race I was once passed by a group of four or five riders in draft formation. Some people have a phoilosophy that if they can get away with it they will.

>>photo will not work as evidence, it would need to be 15 seconds plus of video

you buying the camera then be willing to wait 3 days while we review the footage for the results?<<

Get with the 21st century! My nice little digital camera (the one that took those nice Tour pics) will shoot up to 30 seconds of video and you have IMMEDIATE playback. All in the palm of your hand. Of course you'd need one chip for each wanker, um, cheater. ;-)

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"Some people have a phoilosophy that if they can get away with it they will."

I agree with you 100%. I think it's worse than that. There seems to be a mentality growing in America, at least in the Boston area, that The rules apply to everyone else, I am entitled to exceptions, and that, to paraphrase the quasi-Zen saying, "If you are riding behind someone in a forest and there is no USAT official to see, are you still drafting?" When I drive through Newton, MA, one of the wealthiest cities in the country, I am amazed at all the people in BMW's trying to drive around without yielding to anyone else. They all think they're kings. Walk around downtown Boston, and nobody gets out of anybody else's way. It's like a massive game of pedestrian chicken.

Not to generalize, as many of the folks I have met through triathlon have been excellent people, but I think that by virtue of the fact that many of them are successful, hard-charging professionals, they will do what they want, regardless of the rules(example, Enron). In the financial industry(I won't mention the one particular company that encourages this, as that would be unfaithful of me ;) ), the "F*ck 'em if they're in my way" mentality is encouraged, and that may bleed over to our sport, as there are many financial professionals who do triathlons. I hope I don't offend anyone, but this has been my experience, and I've been in the field for several years.

I, being maniacal about rules, can't stand this mentality. People need to realize that the rules are there so that we can all get along in a neutral, amicable setting, both on and off the race course. Every person who goes around acting as I mention above should not be so surprised when one of their coworkers finally climbs the watch tower.

I have to say that I think blocking is the most annoying infraction. Drafting is wrong, but blocking impedes someone else's ability to race at their capacity and puts them at risk for a position foul. I do like Cathy's idea for drafters/blockers, and I do carry a hand pump in my camelbak...

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A few comments:

1. My belief is that there are only a very small group who blatantly draft on the bike in a triathlon to get an advantage.

2. Many MOP'ers and further back, simply don't care. They are out for a 40K, 56 mile or 112 mile challenge and are oblivious to the rules. Does it really matter that Joe Blow drafted for a few minutes on the bike while finishing in 780'th place in Hoe-Bunks Corner triathlon? Not really, but some race offcial will throw the book at him. Not sure who gains from this

3. At times in the biggger more competitive races the no-drafting rules are asking athletes to do something that is physically impossible to achieve. You can't put that many bikes on the road in that short a period of time and all of a sudden have a 300 people nicely strung-out in a single file line with exactly 7 metres seperating them. Can't happen!

4. Is it 7 metres? is it 5 metres? Is it 10 metres? Who knows?The bottom line is that when you are on the bike going hard, it's hard to tell.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I hadn't thought of that one. Not a bad idea...

>> Does it really matter that Joe Blow drafted for a few minutes on the bike while finishing in 780'th place in Hoe-Bunks Corner triathlon?<<

Stephen, I realize you raced and were quite fast. But when you are the one in 781st place, HELL YES, it matters.

>>Is it 7 metres? is it 5 metres? Is it 10 metres? Who knows?The bottom line is that when you are on the bike going hard, it's hard to tell.<<

I believe the point is, it is NOT 12 inches, nor a paceline or peleton.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

right and then you take a race like 1/2 vineman with 2000 athletes and lets say you shoot shots of 200 [200 x 20 seconds] possible violations. the head ref has to review each one with each ref plus all the paperwork then make a call as to yay or nay. RD wants the violation report within an hour so he can have an awards ceremony. RIGHT

12 refs so who is going to supply the 12 cameras? or do you expect the ref to shell out of their own pocket and buy one [remeber we don't get a salary to do this

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"on your Left"

I agree that drafting seems more prevalent now than when I started doing tris in 1989. I think some of the advances in equpment and better traing advice has increased the number of cyclists of similar ability on the course at the same time. Lately it has been more and more difficult to avoid position fouls. I participated in a race recently, with a pretty flat bike course. I was rolling along about 27-28 mph on a flat stretch, working pretty hard but in a good rythm. Next thing I know some guy comes sprinting up on my left huffing and puffing out of the saddle. As soon as his front wheel passes mine I have to drop back out of the draft zone. Now this guy is spent from his 15 second interval so he goes into recovery mode and our speed drops to about 23-24 mph. I feel pretty good so I jump out of the saddle and sprint past him. He drops and back and we repeat this ballet a few times until we catch another guy. Now there are three of us doing 20-30 second all out intervals to get to the front. Followed by some recovery spinning during which time the fresher guys at the back move back to the front. After a while you realize this 40k interval session is not the ideal way to set up for the run and you have to make the choice to back off and let a big enough gap open to avoid the other guys. While coasting and letting them get up the road a ways so I can get back into my own ryhtm, I get caught by a couple other guys doing their own "feats of strength" interval session and it starts again. I dont want to sound big headed but at the Elite amateur level there are quite a few strong cyclists.I consider myself in that group. I hear people on this forum say all the time " I would just put my head down and ride away from those guys" Thats easier said than done. If I could I would but if I had that kind of horsepower then I would be a pro and I would have different rules to follow. I guess what I am saying is dont always assume people riding together are drafting and if race directors made the courses tougher it wouldnt matter, the strongest cyclists would always seperate themselves. If local terrain dictates a flat course then get creative, lengthen the swim or add a short run in between swim and bike. The standard format of jamming 1000 athletes onto a flat road split up in 3 waves 2 minutes apart makes drafting almost impossible to avoid, save for a continous 4 mile long line of cyclists 7 meters apart.

The races I do always seem to have a few penalties.

However, I think some of the competitors factor in the penalty. I saw the most egregious drafting at an olympic tri I did a few weeks ago. I'm churning along into a slight headwind, when a pretty big guy draws alongside and passes. No problem with that. But, right behind him less than 2 feet off his wheel is a woman, who mirrored his every move. He's swerve right 6 inches, she'd swerve right, he's speed up slightly, she'd speed up, etc. I could see her stop pedaling so as to not pass or get to close to her windshield. I couldn't see their racenumbers since they were to my left. I watched them proceed like this until they moved out of sight ahead of me.

The drafting penalty at the tri was 2 minutes, and I think they (or maybe just the drafter) figured the 2 minute penalty was worth the advantage she got. I'm not sure if they were penalized at all (~10 athletes drew a penalty), or if one or both of them drew one.

My feelings on drafting have changed somewhat over the past few months. I still feel that people who intentionally draft in draft-free racing are cheating scum. They are all arrogant, selfish bastards who have no business in the sport. Ahhh, that feels better....

That said, it is obvious that there are tons of people who are very interested in draft-legal triathlon racing. Why is there no market to support these folks? I've been to all sorts of races where it's basically a weekend-long event with multiple races available. Different distances, mud or street, you get the idea. I have yet to see a drafting/no drafting option. I'd love to see this. Hell, I'd probably try out the draft-legal races just for the fun of it. If an RD supported this option, then they should also be hard-ass as hell enforcing the rules. If one had to choose between a drafting/no-drafting option, then nobody could claim ignorance when they are instantly disqualified, dismembered, and shot for drafting in the draft-free races. So anyway, there's so obviously an interest in this type of racing, why no market to support it?

"If people will cheat on something that's so small as the comment indicates, what are they doing in there regular lives and jobs when it ethics really do matter and there's much more to be gained????"

According to Bloomberg this morning, they are embezzling $43 million and disguising it as a trade through their brokerage house employer (shades of Sumitomo and Barings), then getting a job as CEO of another company.

Don't you wish your parents had raised you without these petty ethical concerns so you could have gotten a huge golden parachute from Enron instead of the golden shower from your current employer?

Why is it that drafting in the swim is allowed and even encouraged? If this is suppose to be an individual sport then why is that? I've never heard someone get berated for drafting in the swim which is easier than cutting your own wake. Should I turn around and kick someone in the face for drafting off of me? Being a stronger swimmer I am biased, and, I would also like to see more draft legal competitions to make the swim more significant instead of being a warmup for a duathlon.

of a bike course like Chalk Hill at 1/2 Vineman and Nasty Grade at WF. How do officials enforce drafting rules on these types of climbs? I struggle with this because on a road like Nasty, the last thing I want to do is drop back 3 bike lengths the moment someone starts to come around me. Since aerodynamic advantage is negligible at that point, are the rules applied the same as on a flat road?

Nasty grade and Chalk hill

on hills that steep no advantage is gained if you are close, so for the most part its a no call [don't be following a foot off a wheel]. However Blocking, centerline, passing on the right will be enforced without hesitation

Eric

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"on your Left"

Interesting article about cheating in the July 14 Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...03/07/08/rushin0714/). Steve Rushin basically says that cheating is rampant and an expected part of the game. I thinks it's pathetic. I don't know where the, "it's only illegal if you get caught" mentality came from, but it is making it's way into everything.

> Why is it that drafting in the swim is allowed [...]

People start the swim together (at least per wave) and so have equal opportunity to catch a draft. (Of course this logic breaks down when waves pass each other, but usually the speed discrepancy is great enough that drafting wouldn't work.) By contrast, cyclists don't start at similar times, so the inequity is multiplied. How sporting is it to be a slow swimmer and catch a bike draft with some fast guy in a later wave who caught you in the swim?

[...] and encouraged?

Well it's within the rules. Drafting on the bike is also encouraged for draft-legal races.

However...I don't really like drafting in the swim either and generally try to swim my own race.

> Being a stronger swimmer I am biased, and, I would also like to see more draft legal competitions to make the swim more significant [...]

Your strong swim may just as likely be negated by a cycling draft pack that forms behind you.

Good points! I guess I was thinking that draft legal would force people to improve their swimming (for mass starts) and make that event more meaningful since you would want to be in that first draft pack.