Based on some old testing I'd say buy yourself an aero fork first:
http://biketechreview.com/...amics/aero_forks.htm
A decently aero fork will save you a good 70+g of drag at 30mph. If you look at some of the wheel comparisons like this:
http://hedcycling.com/wheels/stinger90.php
you'll find that the improvement in drag with a decent fork is similar to the improvement in drag by going to a super-aero wheel. While you are at it, get a fork with a relatively wide crown spacing so you can easily use either an H3 or a deep dish rim with no possible penalty from having it too narrow. I personally believe the whole narrow-fork-sucks-for-H3 is a total line of BS because I've yet to see a shred of data supporting the theory. YMMV.

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I never considered how unaero my fork is. I think ill measure its dimensions and compare to that chart they gave. Hopefully it will be better than the kestral.

So this thread really peaked my interest, and i contacted HED about H3 vs traditional deep rim on a non-aero fork. Here's the emails -

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From: andy tetmeyer [hedtech@hedcycling.com]

Rob, fork does not make any more difference on an H3 than on another wheel. Our competitors trot out this story periodically, but I have never seen anyone prove their claim.
H3 is more aero. I happen to like the Jet C2 60 better as an everyday wheel, it has lower rolling resistance and gives a more comfortable ride. -Andy

From: Rob [mailto:aussierob@cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:13 AM
To: hedtech@hedcycling.com
Subject: Hed-3 or Hed Jet 60 on a road frame?

Hey,

I'm sure you get this a lot, but, im riding a road frame converted to tri geometry (07 specialized allez elite frameset). I heard that with a non-aero fork, the Hed-3 was not the best choice for someone like myself, is this true?

I like Hed products, so it's between the Hed-3 or the Jet 60. Which one is faster?

Thanks,
Rob

Thanks for clearing that up! I've been considering an H3 front for a while, but I've had that nagging rumour in the back of my head. I guess it's gone now!

Phil

based on discussions on "p4 drag thread" again there is a lot of reference to how much difference an aero fork can make
along with this discussion i am seriously lookin at up grading my wolf cl fork on my p3c keeping in mind i run h3 on front
the forks i have at this moment narrowed it down to are

1 kensis attack - http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/product.php?id=16
2 kensis energy - http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/product.php?id=17
3 argos fork - http://www.argoscycles.com/forks.htm
or eaton ec90 - http://www.racycles.com/...ro-idv-7061-204.html

has anybody got any further advice on these or any other forks allowing for h3 wheel (i know hed have said that fork does not matter but...)before i decide
cheers
jc

Haven't tested either Kinesys, but the EC90 wasn't great. The Argos probably kicks ass though.

Chris

kensis energy seems to replace wedge which seems to be good fork according to your list but cannot find carbon aero
the main thing holding me back from argos at this moment is possible weight i have mailed them but no reply yet ;-(
does anybody know what weight these might be ??

Check into the old EC90 on Ebay. My dad has one in his pile of old crap, and it's super wide and a good profile for most of it's length. Probably only came in 1".

Chris

thanks for reply if it came down to choice between old ec90 or if i could get blackwell time bandit which do you think would be better cheers

Probably should check with John Cobb on that one. I doubt it's that great, since the vent is pretty short.

Chris

I'm thinking of upgrading from an 02 Blade by purchasing a used P3C frame. My Litespeed came with a Reynolds Ouzo fork (I'll double check if it is the Aero, but I believe so), and I've used a HED3 for several years.

It sounds like the Wolf fork on some of the earlier P3Cs is not so hot. Would it make sense (and is it possible) to move the old Reynolds fork to the P3C? I plan to keep using the HED3 which from what I can gather may be more compatible with the Reynolds fork.

Thanks.

Reynolds is one of the worst forks for the HED3. It's a beautiful, fast fork by itself, but I would not run it with a carbon spoked wheel. I run mine with a 404 or a HED90 only.

Chris

Now Hed don't make a 90mm Jet, either. The whole 19mm rim Jet line will no longer be in production now as the Jet 2 became available. In fact the only 650c front wheel they still offer is the H3.

Maybe,they will start making 650c Jet 2s someday -who knows.

Bottom line - right now, if you are in the market for a set of aero wheels in 650c, you've got three options - H3 and a 5-year-old Zipp 404 design as far as new wheels go; and then ebay or the ST classifiends for used Jet 60/90s.

I've heard this quite a bit, but can't find any testing to that effect. Can anyone document the HED3, narrow fork problem...?

"Reynolds is one of the worst forks for the HED3. It's a beautiful, fast fork by itself, but I would not run it with a carbon spoked wheel. I run mine with a 404 or a HED90 only."

Oh man...Reynolds/H3 is what I have! What would you estimate the drag difference to be between the H3 and the 404 or Jet 90 with this fork?

I could always get the belt sander out and open up the gap between the spokes and the fork a little...

You have to take these numbers with a grain of salt. The test method is not the greatest, there are some issues with accuracy because of how small the differences are and the power meter used to test them.

No doubt, but now whenever I ride that wheel and hear the fwap...fwap I'm going to have this song going through my head:

They see me rollin'
They hatin'
Patrollin'and trying to catch me ridin dirty

which has a way slower beat than my normal cadence...

Based on heresay or actual data? HED says none exists to prove that hypothesis.

Anyone knows how Blackwell Bandit fork compares with Cervelo Wolf CL ?

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Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com

If Steve said that, then he is wrong. I have tested it myself extensively, and I know Nimble has as well.

Chris

how did you test it?

edit: nevermind, found it earlier in the thread

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Are you using a PT or SRM for the measurements? What watt range were you into do the 25mph?

SRM Pro. Something around 225 watts IIRC. I don't have my data sets here at the moment though.

Chris

With that setup you're not going to be able to say anything within +- 4.5 watts is a accurate measurement.

Thanks for the stats lesson.
I'm sure you're just trying to be helpful, but I am certain of the validity and accuracy of the testing.

Chris