yet the OP isn't able to confirm he was clipped, he just thought he was. If his memory was so vivid up to hitting the ground I would imagine he would of known exactly what happened.

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Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

Yep, the West bound Shoulder of Del Dios, tends to always have debris from vehicles and chunks of fallen rock that have skipped over or through the catch fence. Its a Fast section if you are in the drops or on a TT bike and making a decent effort (or greater). In a paceline on Roadbikes that section is near 50mph. If a paceline passed a single rider who couldn't hold his line because of debris, it would be pretty ugly indeed.

And I'm not saying I think this is what happened, I'm just saying that if you are familiar with that piece of road; you could see how things could go awry in a heartbeat.

quote MSUGUY:""yet the OP isn't able to confirm he was clipped, he just thought he was. If his memory was so vivid up to hitting the ground I would imagine he would of known exactly what happened. ""

Sometimes when things happen for the first time, your brain doesn't know how exactly to process the sensations that are occurring as you go down. So, I can understand that part being potentially confusing to the downed rider. Its like when you are on the mat being choked out for a second time and your breathing gets really snore like: oh yeah.......here we go again.

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

WOW, so he is saying David caused the accident with absolutely no substance to back it up?

Isn't there a contradiction here? Didn't the women who called 911 say 2 riders went down and they were behind him? Garrett is saying here that 3 riders went down, the one next to him AND the 2 behind him.

From her email: From my vantage point, all I saw was your body flying in the air and the two
other guys in front of me tumbling over you. Somehow I managed the avoid
everyone and got my cell out first to call 911. There was a group of about 5 of
us who stayed with you until the paramedics came, one who was an orthopedic


David, I really do hope you heal strong. You have done nothing wrong, your posts have been professional and unthreatening.

If I was present at an accident and I was that rider at the side of you, under no circumstances would I have left. I would have made sure you got my contact details and I would have rung the hospital to make sure you were ok. I think the majority of people on this forum would do the same as well. I hope that person isn't sleeping well, because they shouldn't be!

Garrett should hang his head in shame. The guy has serious potentially life changing injuries and you are worried about club image? Park that ego and search for some compassion.

WCTC,

Can you confidently state that no one from your group went down on Saturday? I would hope that you inquire with your members and reply.

As a Chapel Hillian, I pass along my hope for a speedy recovery to UNCTriGuy

Welcome to San Diego!!

Garrett continues to amaze. His bumbling efforts to protect his club have only served to ruin his credibility.

Anyone with class would simply say that 1. they are sorry to hear a fellow rider got hurt, 2. they do not condone dangerous riding, 3. they have done what they can to get to the bottom of this, 4. at this point they have not seen any evidence that a WCTC member was involved, 5. if new evidence comes forward they will consider it fairly.

I was on the fence about Garrett until I read the statement that he said, in so many words, there is absolutely no way that anyone in his club is responsible. I can understand maybe his powers of deductive reasoning could be limited, or ability to recognize fallacies of logic are not top notch.... but if you're not present at an event, and the best you have are a series of second hand accounts of an event that start with, "I'm not sure what happened, but..." then no. You can not make absolute statements like, "there is no way..." Maybe he is inexperienced, but making such statements in a fluid situation just sets you up to look really, really bad. In this case, he then backs it up with a thread in his FB that makes assumptions and jumps to conclusions.

That said, I clearly don't like this guy and what ever doubt I had before is now gone. Clearly in a CYA mode for reasons that would make most suspicious. He has no "dog in the hunt," if he's not responsible or his club isn't involved, and yet he persists. If people are hounding you Garrett, ignore them. By responding this way, you're just feeding the trolls and making anyone (like me) who might have given you the benefit of the doubt decide to lean back the other way.

I've been riding motorcycles for 29 years, and usually go down about every 5-6 years. Events can and do become clearer in some cases. The fact he remembers most of the events up to and including feeling a "shove", makes sense. I had a car accident where I thought something had fallen from my sun visor, and my nose bruised a few days later. Upon going back a day or two later to try and figure out what might have fallen (since I never keep anything on my visor), I realized what had happened is my head had whipped forward, hit the steering wheel, and returned to the normal upright position so fast (I was driving into the sun @50 mph, in a 55 zone, in the Colorado mountains and hit a disabled car that had left their rear 2-3 feet in the highway, and I never saw it) that my brain didn't realize that my head ever moved.

I've had similar when I highsided pretty hard off the bike and slid into a curb (hip pointer and contusions). What I do is go back to the scene, and then piece it together. I use it as a learning experience. What did I miss? In one case, I realized later the corner I'd taken every morning to work for about 4 years was off-camber (road slopes away, decreased traction).

So, when you get healthy, try going back to the scene. You can post up pics that say, "OK where's this cateye?" You were on the shoulder anyway, and I'm about 99.999% certain CAL TRANS doesn't put markers on the shoulders. They put them between lanes. I'm in Afghanistan right now so I can't verify this (and I've been here awhile so my memory might be wrong). The shoulders are usually just painted lines.

As you have indicated, the local community certainly knows what has occured, as evidenced through various postings. I'm sure those postings carry over to discussions in the community.

Like you, I am amazed that the other rider(s) who went down have not added to the facts or have not attempted to contact Dave to at least wish him well. Hopefully they have or will and we just have not heard about it. As a third party reading this it is interesting to see how people may read and interpret information, which they do not have first hand account or knowledge of. Personally I would like to see some goodwill, integrity and support from the community and for Dave to get some help as originally requested: "Can anyone tell me if they saw this to help fill-in the gaps..."

I recall a couple of years ago being passed by a motorcyclist who I thought was riding recklessly. Sure enough a few seconds later around a corner I was calling 911 for the same motorcyclist who was down in the road. About 3-4 individuals stopped to assist. I even tried to haul it down to a local fire station to see if I could get quicker response than waiting for the 911 dispatch. We all waited for paramedics to arrive in order to ensure the individual was in good hands.

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

As of 9/02/2010, there are ZERO cateyes/bott's dots on that section of Del Dios, except in the center of the road. There is only relatively new asphalt and white paint.

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

Out of respect for the OP and his situation, I will keep this reply to the point.

A) A body cast is not the price of admission.
B) You should read the OP's posts specifically. He has been nothing short of saintly in such a state of injury, without accusation, and for you to give "stop whining" as your advice is completely classless at best.

As far as I understand from rereading the thread and the links, according to Julie it is fairly certain that none of Garrett's riders were involved. It is the two mystery riders that went down with Dave that are unaccounted for, at least to us at the third hand perspective, with small specifics in LJRider's post. While it would be nice to hear more from Julie, she certainly doesn't have an obligation to post here. Now, why Garrett can't even get Julie's account right in his own facebook posts, when he even pasted the email here, I can't tell you. . .Darwin Award in PR for sure.

I can’t take it anymore. I am 100% positive that if a fellow cyclist saw you go down that they would have stopped. Whether it be in a pace line or solo. I am also 100% sure that whatever happened out there that the other cyclist did not know that you went down.
Cycling is a dangerous sport. We all know that. So why is it that anytime someone goes down they have to blame someone? Dude, accidents happen and it is unfortunate that you experienced injuries, but this is the price of admission into a dangerous pastime. Again, there is no way that a group of riders would just keep motoring on if they know that someone crashed. Let it go…Stop whining!! Shit happens.

To be the biggest douchebag in this thread is quite an accomplishment, congratulations.

Replying to last thread here (not directly to you Sevans.

I think I have read every post on this thread. I hope that Dave has a speedy recovery and comes back faster and stronger than ever.

Did Julie notice what kind of kit / bike the other guy in the crash was wearing? According to some, it was "definitely" not a WCTC one.

Maybe the dude the ran into Dave is a casual rider and does not spend time on forums / facebook / group pages and has no idea what happened. Sounds like he was there when the paramedics arrived and he told them that he did not need assistance. If I put myself in this type of mindset, maybe this guy thought he did the right thing. He was there until help arrrived. The guy he crashed with was alive and being helped. He said goodbye to the paramedics and pedaled along on his merry way.
It's not like he wiped some guy out and then took off for Mexico and left his family behind (See Rappstar's accident thread).

Man is it ever hard to interpret what people mean when they type into a forum or an email. The key is communication and simplification. A revised WCTC message might look like this:

Team,

On Saturday there was a pretty serious accident on Del Dios/Lake Hodges. A guy named UNCTriGuy who is an active triathlete went down shortly after a paceline of guys/gals in our kits passed him. He is in pretty bad shape, but it looks like he will eventually be okay. Julie from the team saw the aftermath of the accident and called 911 for help. She is not quite sure what happened, but there may have also been 1 or 2 other riders involved. Dave was wearing xxx top, xxx shorts, a xxx helmet and riding a xxx bike. To the guys in the paceline that remember passing him, do any of you recall any detail of other riders that were in the same area? UNCTriGuy is trying to figure out what the heck happened. I find it really hard to believe that someone who was involved in an accident would just ride off, but it seems like this might have happened on Saturday.
Be safe out there and remember when you are hammering past other riders, give them a heads up that you are coming. Leave plenty of space if possible. Better to bomb down the hill at 40 and be safe than at 50 and come home via ambulance.
Happy Training

I was hit by a car while riding a bike at the age of 5 years old.

I can remember every second up to the blackness.

Brother was taking off on me on his bike and didn't want me to follow, as a 5 year old, I saw him leave our blind driveway and simply went after him - turned and saw a woman's face with a look of horror and then I remember being 7...

Don't call BS unless you've been there.

Since then, I have had plenty of concussions / head injuries / etc. and I can mostly remember the moments leading up to them vividly, it's the after that is blurry.

To the OP, this thread is getting far too crazy with a bunch of people going back and forth. Personally, I wish you all the best, hope your recovery is well and fast and that whoever bumped you, if they did, comes forth and this gets resolved.

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"Chrissie wins because she trains really f'ing hard and races really f'ing hard and was blessed with a huge f'ing motor" Jordan Rapp

Dave - glad to hear you are well. I think if you'd offered your family the outcome you've got at the moment the ambulance arrived, they'd have taken it, however bad it seems. I've heard so many stories that have ended worse.

I'm still not clear on something. The samaritan that called 911 had no clear view - it was obscured by cyclists behind Dave who subsequently got caught up in it aswell, albeit with better outcomes than our man. So Dave is halfway there - we know now that no cyclist abandoned him until advised to do so by medics (good) but he still does not have closure on what happened (bad). Even if there was no coming together of cyclists, he does not know whether he made a mistake on his own, or whether his choice of line was restricted by someone passing too close, forcing him to hit an obstruction of some sort.

All we need is one of the 3 (?) guys who were very close to him to either say "sorry dude, you looked across to say hello and hit a stone" or "sorry dude, I passed too close and you had nowhere to go but to hit the stone" or "dude, you veered left to avoid a stone not realising I was coming past and there was contact" or whatever. Someone must know one of them - it's a story you'd tell in the pub afterwards, right? - and be able to get even an anonymous answer? Maybe Dave's suspicion (and I would be inclined to agree) is that if the other riders had alerted him to their presence and left sufficient room, he'd be training for IMAZ this week.

Dave,

Any update to your condition?

Hope all is well.