I owe a serious debt of gratitude to the CalTrans gentleman who protected me from motorists. Thank you, sir! I wish I could find his contact info.

Updated on the Swamis google group.

http://groups.google.com/group/swamis-cycling

I heard some riders talking about a crash while having coffee at Nytro post ride.

Ill keep mining Dave, keep getting better.

Hope you get some good news from the doc.

I posted it in his Facebook page, so hopefully lots of people will see it.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I've read that 10 times and everytime I read it I think about my wife and how freaked out she would be if she got a call from the hospital. I wrecked pretty bad once, but I called her from the road. The fear in her voice then still rings in my head, I cannot even fathom what your wife went/is going through.

:(

CS

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To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

I am a member of Swami's and I was on that ride (granted, near the front). Unfortunately I did not know about the crash, and I am simply appalled at this development. We've had problems with Kona triathletes before (flying down Del Dios in the aero bars and not pointing out people or debris).

Last year around this time I was in a paceline going right through that area, maybe 5th guy back. Someone in their aero bars was on the front going downhill around 35mph and didn't point out a cluster of large rocks in the road, and just swerved left. The ripple of the swerve in the riders meant that I could not react in time and had to plow right through the rocks. Instant double blowout at 35mph. I managed to keep the bike upright and coast to a stop on my rims, but I could have easily been in your shoes. It's this same stupid shit I see all too often.

Yesterday the group on Swami's was unusually big. I remember purposely moving up the field right before that area because I felt unsafe sitting in the rear of the ride. I am appalled and ashamed that a fellow cyclist (triathlete, whatever) would cause a crash, go down, and keep on going with someone on the tarmac. My deepest apologies, and I wish you a speedy recovery.

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My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

Hope you heal fully and quickly so that you are able to get back out there soon. I must say that I appreciate the manner in which you have posted here, refraining from hyperbolic statements and/or attacks etc., maybe that will compel someone to come forward at some point. I am saddened that the other rider involved did not choose to check on your condition and act appropriately. I am also saddened that others in the group who were not involved in the crash did not stop and provide assistance. Perhaps they ALL were unaware of the crash, but seems unlikely.

I am one of the founders of the West Coast Tri Club and Dave I wanted to first and foremost say I hope you have a quick recovery. I have received several emails regarding this accident and the mass email that was sent to the Swami's Club. I have contacted the individual that was mentioned in hopes of gaining some understanding on what happened.

Our club had at least 3 groups that were on Del Dios Saturday and the group of 4 or 5 that you mention had some very well respected members of the multi sport community riding. One member in particular was a woman that coaches and has been a part of the triathlon world for many years.

It is important to not make assumptions and from what I have read there have been a lot of assumptions made here. Dave I am very sorry you went down and I know I hate flying down Del Dios, but from what it sounds like you are not sure what exactly happened and you are trying your best to figure it out. Let me help you out with the information that I am aware of.

Our member that rides the Elite bike was in the number 2 position in a group of 5. They had a woman (coach) that had fallen back during the descent. There were not any members of this group that "went down" at any point during the ride yesterday. Had anyone gone down or clipped another individual not only would the woman that was trailing have stopped to help, but someone would have seen the accident. You said that the person went down and got back on their bike and left you. With out a doubt I know for a fact that was not from any of our members or other individuals that they were riding with. Our cycling and race kits stand out and perhaps you just remember seeing members out on the road yesterday and you are doing your best to recall what happened.

We would like to help you figure out what exactly happened, but before the rest of the community starts formulating theories it is important to realize the consequences of those allegations.
Posting a picture from a facebook post of one of our members going down during a weekly pace line workout is not grounds to make the assumptions that this is typical of our members. Our club is comprised of many elite athletes that have been riding for many years and our group always has the respect to look out for the safety and well being of our members and other cyclists on the roads.

Dave, once again I hope you have a quick recovery and if there is any information we can offer to help out we will be happy to do so.

Regards,
Garrett

I always laugh/cringe when I see triathletes in a pace line on the aerobars, especially as it sounds like groups of riders that are unknown by all. Just a recipe for disaster and as from the comments and pictures being shown, certainly sounds like bike handling skills are lacking (which is common among triathletes).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I owe a serious debt of gratitude to the CalTrans gentleman who protected me from motorists. Thank you, sir! I wish I could find his contact info.

A letter to the head of your district would probably be appreciated

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/contactus.htm

A wonder WHY they would be in a pace-line. You can't get in one "legally" in a race - so why do it in practice?

I just assume its the roadies on tri-bikes that can't seem to break the drafting mind-set.

My guess is that these clubs are probaly really large and basically all have "group" outings. I assume they do group runs, group rides, group swims (the tri club I am on, has a group ride, but I've never ridden it because I imagine they have all sorts of people mixed up with road/tri bikes, and I just dont really want to ride in a group setting like that).. I'm guessing by the pics on the club websites clubs like these certainly allow pacing with aerobars. Once a ride starts, your never going to have a legal pace line (my guess is that the rides dont even suggest riding legal distance apart as most "club" rides dont), as it will all bunch up, so it'll be a bunch of tri riders riding wheel to wheel like a road group ride (I myself have seen this happen with 4 different club rides throughout NC/VA). Group riding is fine when your on a road bike and you can have a bit more control with the brakes, etc., and as evident by pictures, stories, it sounds like there are many that lack ettiquette/bike handling (not singling out just this club, this happens all across tri club rides).

Edit: Not to say road riders dont crash or have bad ettiquette, but I would think your reaction time and overall bike handling is more dangerous in a tight group setting than on a road bike.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Ok once again I will reiterate what was said before people continue to make assumptions and continue to make this a thread where fingers are pointed at any group whether triathletes or not.

It is now evident that this had nothing to do with the group of triathletes that Dave had remembered. No one in that group clipped anyone and no one went down and certainly not treated by medics.
I hope you are able to figure out what happened.

Update: doc says I'm out for IM AZ :-(

"Welcome to San Diego!"

HaHa,

From my limited experience I think that holds true for all of Southern California.
Recreational cycling there seems to have degenerated into an exhibitionist dick-measuring contest.

I blame LanceaLot.

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

Please explain? What evidence do we have that they were not the ones who clipped him?

It is wrong to make the assumption that the members of your club, whom UNC_tri_guy saw, were the ones who hit him. He worded his post very well to state only the facts he remembers and never did he accuse your club.

It is wrong to make the assumption that the members of your club, whom UNC_tri_guy saw, were definitely not the ones who hit him. At this point, we really don't know.

I understand you standing up for your club against unsupported allegations that they were definitely involved in the crash. But keep in mind, (1) UNC_tri_guy never made that allegation so your posted response should not have been directed at him and (2) you have no more proof your riders are innocent than the people saying they are guilty have.

Dave,
Sorry for the confusion here. I was not implying that you made the assumptions or posted the pictures. It was in reference to the other people that had posted. Based on the email that was sent out to the Swami's email list it was hard to determine if you felt a WCTC member was the one in fact that clipped you. Glad to here that is not the case.

We actually just found out that the last member of the small group that was out yesterday was actually the one that called the medics for you. She had fallen off the back of the other riders and actually saw your crash. I am sure you will here from her, but it sounded like she felt either you or the other rider hit something on the road (maybe a reflective light) and caused one to crash taking the other with them.

Garrett

Now, "We actually just found out that the last member of the small group that was out yesterday was actually the one that called the medics for you. She had fallen off the back of the other riders and actually saw your crash. I am sure you will here from her, but it sounded like she felt either you or the other rider hit something on the road (maybe a reflective light) and caused one to crash taking the other with them."

I would get your story straight before posting it on the internet. I sincerely hope this is a result of you posting before you had all the details and I hope you can see where these two accounts paint very different pictures. You say none of your club went down but now say that either UNC_Tri_Guy or the person who hit him struck something in the road causing them both to crash? Are you saying the woman saw someone not a member of your club go down? Or was your initial report that no member of your club went down incorrect?
Also, I thought if she saw it she would have stayed to help? You told us she saw it, we know it was a motorist who who stopped to make sure he didn't get run over. We also know the EMT spoke with a man who gave an account but there is no mention of a woman giving an account? Did she not stick around that long?
You don't owe me or ST answers to any of the above questions. You do them to owe them to UNC_Tri_Guy though.

"We actually just found out that the last member of the small group that was out yesterday was actually the one that called the medics for you. She had fallen off the back of the other riders and actually saw your crash. I am sure you will here from her, but it sounded like she felt either you or the other rider hit something on the road (maybe a reflective light) and caused one to crash taking the other with them"

?:-O
Speechless.

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

 
This doesn't seem to jive with what the CalTrans man saw. Maybe someone needs to talk to him and the paramedic. Maybe the paramedic remembers the kit of the person refusing tx.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Yknot,
I am filling in information as it comes to me.
There were 3 men riding and 2 women. The 3 men and 1 woman were ahead of the accident. The 2nd woman was behind the two people that crashed. Neither of whom were in her group.
I actually don't have to worry about getting my story straight. I had nothing to do with this. And it is clear that people posting pics of our members in this forum and assuming they had anything to do with Dave's terrible accident is fairly premature.

I was simply trying to clear the air because I don't ride with anyone that wouldn't help out a fallen cyclist or one in need.

The 2nd woman said she called 911 to report the accident. Perhaps the car got to Dave before she did. It doesn't matter who called or in what order they called, the important issue was that she saw both parties go down and non of them were members of her group. I don't know and really it doesn't matter because the only person that could actually know what happened was the individual that was in the crash with Dave. No one knows who that person was.

Riding is extremely dangerous and they often say it's not if, but rather when you will go down. As stated before I wish all the best to Dave.

I don't have all the information and was simply trying to clear the air and hopefully bring in some information that might help.

Sounds like you should have offered any help and wellwishes then clam'd up. Your inconsistencies show that you are obviously trying to deflect any accountability before all of the details come in. What if in the end it turns out to be one of your people??? It will only look worse for you and your group and your words will definitely be used against you. It also makes you sound less sincere.

None of this story makes any sense.

First off this whole situation is sickening. How it is turning into a cover your @ss fest is even worse. It sounds like the only person to act with any decency was the Cal Train employee and perhaps the "woman" who called the paramedics. That being said, there are a lot of information gaps in the "facts" of this situation and I can only pray that it is being criminally investigated. For all of the cyclist traffic, many from the "club" and no one can ID this phantom cyclist or even confirm seeing him? Wouldn't the elite group have passed him just before passing the victim? The club story reeks of CYA and as an impartial observer believe some police interviews are warranted.

To UNC_Tri_Guy I hope that your recovery is full and quick. To have multiple compression fractures from a cycling accident is alarming and thank goodness you don't have any neural deficit! Hopefully they can treat you with a minimally invasive procedure and that you don't require a fusion. Heal quickly and stay strong; don't let these pathetic excuses for human beings get you down. You will be back on the bike soon and we'll see you at IMAZ next year!