What studies has Brian MacKenzie published?

Tiago

or frank day!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I haven't read all of the posts here so far so pardon me if this has already been said because it seems so obvious. This guy says that he did years and years of LSD training before he wised up. So obviously this method gave him a very good base of fitness that allowed him to add all of this intensity. Without the base the intensity just leads to injuries. I think I read that the flame out rate for CrossFit is incredibly high. That is beside the point though. What the article doesn't say is how many years he was doing it "wrong" and when he started doing it the CrossFit way. His Ironman time is from many moons ago. I guess he decided that he couldn't handle another Ironman after walking most of the run the last go around. I guess he should have spent more time in the saddle and biking afterwards.

How many of the CrossFit Endurance people qualified for Kona last year? That would be a great question. Their claim that it is a new system and will take years to reap the full benefits is laughable.

Side note - my girlfriend did CrossFit and got in great shape but any run longer than 30 minutes and she was wiped out. I was thinking of doing one of their Boot Camps next month in addition to my tri training but this article makes me think twice. It is too bad that the CFE folks are embarassing the CF name.

I know my statement was very generalized as I did this on purpose because I just wanted to see what others had to say on this topic. My personal opinion on CF is that it is a good workout program as long as it fits your goals. If your goals are all around general fitness, then it is a great system. However, it is "trendy" right now whether people want to admit it or not. This is my opinion based on what I see in Southern California (several different gyms).

Problem with all of these different statements for and against is the lack of perspective. You say you have set personal records but my question (for perspective and not as a "call out") is what type of PR's did you have and what are they now.

It has been my experience, that almost any consistent training program that develops some type of fitness will allow people to be generally successful. However, "generally" successful is very different than being a top age grouper in larger, competative events. For perspective, a sub 12 hour IM for a male under 50 is generally successful and something to be proud of, but is far cry off what specificity trainers desire, which would probably be more in the 10 to 10:30 hour or faster range.

CF=good, but to be very good in a specific sport, you must train specifically for what you are going to do.

That isn't me. I just think this crossfit guy is a crock of shit because HE holds HIMSELF up as an example of why his crossfit ideas are powerful,

jack, youre exactly right, we have have the knowledge to say his training techniques are not only stupid but a waste of time. and yes, he is using himself as an example, there we have the right to criticize him.

using an ad hominem argument (atking the other person) isnt happening here.

i dont get why fleck and desertdude cant just say straight foward the training is pretty dumb. i know its what you guys are thinking it. theres nothing wrong with pointing out flaws just be like...

pros of article: talks about importance of intensity, nutrition, racing strategies, pacing
cons: training the crossfit way

only irrational people think that only super results of a coach is best indicator of how good he/she is going to be. some people were given amazing bodies, others amazing brains, and a small few both.

logical fallacy, again.

I think you are doing a good job of playing devil's advocate, Brian.

The guy is picking and choosing his principles based on what he's trying to push...not what is applicable to an endurance athlete.

If a guy comes to me and asks how he can go from a 5:00 to a 4:30 HIM...CFE is not going to be part of my toolkit. And if it IS part of that athlete's toolkit, I'm likely to recommend it get dropped after taking a look at the total training plan.

Put another way...if a dude comes to me with a 5:04 HIM time with, say, a 2:00 run split and asks me how he can run 1:30 and make a 4:30 HIM split...I am NOT going to be sending him CFE work. A little scratching of the surface is probably going to uncover a woefully inadequate bike and/or run volume. Not many people can run 1:30 HIM split on less than 20 miles a week running...though a boatload have tried.

The guy is picking and choosing his principles based on what he's trying to push...not what is applicable to an endurance athlete.

This is probably the best point made here. This guy was likely a good endurance athlete who got into CrossFit (lots of my cycling friends have as well). He got CrossFit certified and opened his own gym. Then he probably saw 50 other CrossFit gyms open nearby and said how can I be different. So now he has to make his preconcieved notion of how to train fit the endurance realm. Hopefully the CFE people will realize that following ANY training plan consistently will likely make you better and faster. The real question is would you be better or faster if you trained a different way. It is like the folks who do the Akins diet or just about any other diet. Yes you lose weight initially but it has more to do with the fact that you are actually watching what you put in your mouth than the diet.

BrzilianTri--
Articles that Brian has published in the CrossFit Journal include: The New World Order For Endurance Training, The Basics of Pose Running Technique, Endurance Training-- Decreased Time & Increased Work Capacity. You can access these by doing a search on the CrossFit.com journal page search "running" and they all are there

but he produces articles with bad suggestions...

He asked what studies he has published, not articles he has written.

Brian has not written any articles with bad suggestions in them. These articles elaborate on incorporating these methods and give examples of using it. The Endurance Training one follows, Rookie, in his preparation to run a hilly 50k (that�s 31.2 miles, with 5,490 feet of climbing) as his first long-distance race. On November 18, he completed his 50k with no
problems.

Crossfit Endurance + Dianetics + MonaVie = 6 HOUR IM!

Yeah, I know I dated myself with the old MOS designation, and I hope I never forget those nights spent rewriting patrol orders................


Reading about what's going on in the Corps just makes me feel like someone shot my dog...........

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

Not sure what that tells me other than he completed 50K. Time/Pace? Previous times/pace? Did he run the entire event?

What exactly did the CFE do to improve his performance?

if your running coach held up his 6 hour marathon as an example of his coaching systems prowess, wouldn't think him silly?

Jack,

Perhaps, but I would also look at the fact that he had coached the athletes who held all running distance event running records in Canada at the time and as a matter of fact one of of the athletes he coached held the Canadian Men's marathon record - a record that still stands I might add. A number of National team and Olympic team members. The Club Cross country team that had won the national cross country championships for a number years. Plus he was a really nice guy. Cared about the athletes. Was passionate about the sport and saw some potential in me. Seemed like he knew what he was doing. The thought that he may have never run in his life, never occurred to me.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Murph-Fit is the non-swim training program for tri ;-)

kisses!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I'm going to start off my response by giving a bit of my personal history. I have been a big fan of this site for a long time, if you check my profile I first registered back in 2003. Haven't been on the site much over the last 2 years mostly because I can't access it from work. What does that say about my work ethic??? I have been involved in triathlon training since 1997 and running marathons since 2002. Up until late last year I always followed the traditional endurance athlete paradigm. I will admit though, I was never a super high weekly mileage kinda guy and was never good at LSD. I usually ended up doing Long A Bit Faster Than I Should Be Running Distance (LABFTISBRD, I guess). My friends always gave me crap saying that I was in a constant taper. At any rate, in January of last year I started doing CrossFit and somewhere around July or August I started doing CrossFit Endurance. I can say that without a doubt my fitness level now far exceeds any that I had ever achieved just through my previous endurance training. Is CF and CFE the portal to Endurance Nirvana? I don't know, but I can say that I'm damn happy with the results so far. Let me elaborate a bit:

1. Prior to starting CF my marathon PR was 3:06:43 which I logged at the Huntington Beach Marathon in 2005. One month after starting CF I nailed 3:03:36 at the 2008 Huntington Beach Marathon, in what was the worst weather I have ever run a marathon in. Now, I don't necessarily give all credit to CF for my 3+minute PR, because I had only been at it for a month and that was in the intro program, so I wasn't hitting it on all cylinders yet. I do, however, credit CF with my incredible recovery. In the past an effort like that would put me out for nearly a week. I would have been shattered for 3 days at least and wouldn't have considered anything resembling a workout, except maybe a really easy swim or spin on the trainer until about 5 or 6 days out. After posting this PR however, I was in the gym the next day doing light power cleans and on Tuesday did a workout named "Cindy" where I did 90 pull-ups, 180 push-ups and 255 air squats in 20 minutes. This absolutely blew me away and was my "a-ha moment" for believing in the power of CF.

2. In October of 2008 I ran the Long Beach 1/2 Marathon. For the 2 or 3 months prior to that I did nothing but CF 4-5 x per week and did CFE runs 2 x per week with an occasional CFE bike and swim. My longest training run was 8.5 mi, probably longer than would be recommended by Brian McKenzie for a 1/2 mary program. My time was 1:21 and change. Previous 1/2 mary PR is somewhere around 1:25, I don't run a lot of solo 1/2 mary's.

My wife also ran this 1/2. Her training plan consisted solely of CF 4-5 times per week. No running outside of what was prescribed in the WOD. We train at an affiliate (www.oceansidecrossfit.com) and therefore do not follow the CF mainsite WOD. So her longest single effort run was 1 mile, but that was in a WOD called "Murph" which starts and ends with a 1 mile run, so guess her longest training run was 2 miles, and definitely no more than 4-5 miles per week. Her result: 6+ minute PR. Previous best was 2:04 and she ran 1:58.

3. Just 1 week ago I raced the Devil Dog Duathlon at Camp Pendleton (5K R, 30K B, 5K R). Last time I raced this Du was 2005 and I finished in a time of 1:23:46. This year I went into the race, again following CF 4-5 times per week and CFE runs 2-3 times per week. Prior to this race I had not been on my bike since sometime around November of last year. The result this year was 1:25:52. Not a PR for this race, but I'll take it considering the complete lack of time in the saddle. Run splits were 18:31 (including transition) and 18:29...my 5K PR is 17:50.

My wife also decided to jump into this race. Still no run training going on and she has not been on her tri bike since she was about 4 months pregnant with our daughter who just turned 4 in March. Result: 2:04 total time with run splits of 28:06 (including transition) and 28:42. Not hitting the podium, but this time is very consistent with what she would have posted when previously following a traditional multisport training plan. Actually, her run splits are probably a bit better than she would have previously posted.

Currently I am training for the Pacific Crest Trail 50-miler. This will be my first ultramarathon event. I am doing CF 4-5 times per week and CFE runs 2-3 times per week. So far my long run has been about 10.5 mi TT. This weekend I will do 4x5K with 5 min recovery and in 2 weeks I'll do a 13.1 trail TT and that about wraps it up. This is uncharted territory for me, so I'm a bit apprehensive, but I think I would be even if I was following a traditional LSD program.

Now, I didn't post this as an absolute testament to the "Power" of CF Endurance. I'm still getting my feet wet with it. I hope to have a good result with the 50-miler and then look at other events to try this out on in the future. I really just wanted to show that there are some of us who are posting solid results while following this program. I'm not likely going to be winning races following CF/CFE, but let's face it, I never won any races following my old program. I am consistently staying a BOFOP (Back of the Front of the Pack) athlete, and I'm quite content with that.

I'll come back and post my 50-miler results...good, bad or indifferent.

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Dan Hollingsworth

Nobody grows old by merely living a number of years. People grow old only by deserting their ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up interest wrinkles the soul." - Douglas MacArthur

Fleck, that's the point! Your coach DIDN'T hold up is running abilities as proof of his coaching prowess. He either (if he was humble) let the results of his athletes speak for themselves, or (if he was pressed) pointed to the results of his athletes as proof. This is exactly the opposite of what this dude is doing.... "I did a (amazingly slow) 11:33 Ironman on Crossfit Endurance training, therefore Crossfit works (N=1) and therefore Crossfit will work for everybody."

THIS is why we're ridiculing this dude, not because he's slow, but because he's using his slowness as proof that he's fast, which he isn't, and proof that you can be fast, which is a fallacy based on an N=1 argument that was disproved by itself, ie. the 11:33 IM time.

It's circular non-logic mumbo-jumbo designed to sell memberships to all the hot mommies and East Coast transplant dudes trying to compete in the dating market that makes up the Newport Beach zip code.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Now *your* results are such that they might actually get somebody's attention. Congrats to you, nicely done.

However

Event 100m 200m 400m 500m 800m 1000m 1500m Mile 2000m 3000m 2M 4000m 3M 5000m Time 15.0 30.0 1:02.7 1:21.8 2:17.7 2:59.9 4:43.6 5:05.4 6:27.2 10:06.6 10:51.6 13:48.9 17:00 17:38 Pace/Mile -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 5:11.5 5:25.4 5:25.8 5:33.5 5:40 5:41 Pace/K -- -- -- -- -- -- 3:09.1 3:09.7 3:13.6 3:22.2 3:22.5 3:27.2 3:31 3:32 Event 4M 8000m 5M 10K 15K 10M 20K 13.1M 15M 25K 30K 20M 25M Marathon Time 23:04 29:04 29:13 36:38 56:45 1:01:22 1:17:14 1:21:30 1:34:00 1:38:07 1:59:20 2:09:03 2:42:41 2:51:53 Pace/Mile 5:46 5:50 5:50 5:53 6:05 6:08 6:14 6:14 6:16 6:19 6:24 6:27 6:30 6:34 Pace/K 3:35 3:38 3:38 3:39 3:47 3:49 3:52 3:52 3:54 3:55 3:59 4:01 4:02 4:05


According to MacMillan, your marathon run was well off of what you *should* have been capable of, given your half mary time (which I entered as 1:21:30, since you were not specific about the 'and change' part.)

Oh, and given that you have had proper training for it. That's always the other caveat.
Here's said caveat for you, verbatim:
(Do keep in mind that a 5K runner is unlikely to run the equivalent time in the marathon off of 5K training. The runner would obviously need to train for the marathon to accomplish this equivalent time.)


The short high intensity stuff is good, I'm a fan.
But without a bit of the longer stuff mixed in, you will not perform up to the same level in longer events. As you yourself proved.
(and even more blatantly, that Brian dude proved, with his glacial mary at IMC)

PS - sorry the formatting got f'd. It looked fine before I submitted it.
The "equivalent performance" mary time for a 1:21:30 half mary, is 2:51:53
(that also equates to a 17:38 5k time, which is pretty close to your 5k PB)

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float , hammer , and jog

Throw in a few bikram yoga sessions and some P90X workouts and you actually never need to b/s/r at all!!!

I feel so dumb now, trying to improve my running by actually running.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Sorry.

I cannot get "on board" with articles written by a CF practitioner "published" in a CF rag. When he is published in one of the peer-reviewed journals of exercise physiology, then you may get the attention of myself and others around here.

A couple interesting points but otherwise it's crap. He was right about 1 thing..."I couldn't train him." in reference to Macca. Plus yea, are we to be impressed by his 11:33 Ironman finish? That gets him all aboard on the train to mediocre finish times. The article talks about finishing endurance races, not finishing them fast. If there were a shorter way to the top pros would be doing it, they would know about, there coaches would know about it. I think some coaches are doing similar things in terms of replacing a lot of LSD stuff with intensity, this concept isn't new though.

There are a lot of AG'rs out there that sit around wondering why they aren't getting faster even though they are putting in the hours. If you never go fast you will never be fast and that applies to any distance. If your never fast at the short stuff what speed do you think you will be racing the long stuff? Again this isn't new science. You need to do the long miles and put in the work, and you need to put in the intensity. Give me one good training program that doesn't have both in it.

This guy is trying to put his system in a fancy marketing package to put food on his table. End of story.

Nice post and congratulations on your achievements. I look forward to seeing how well you do in the 50. Like I said, I like CF and think people can have success with it. My issue is when someone - anyone- says their "system" is the best and will make EVERYONE better, faster, stronger than before. When instructors say things like this, I can't help but think of snake oil. It reminds me of the martial artists who argue "my system is better than yours because it's the ultimate way."

My guess (and I hope this in no way jinx's you) is that the longer the event you do on CF training, the less successful you will be. I believe you will be able to complete the events, but I don't expect your times to be as good as your 5k, 10k or half times. However, with that said, you will still be able to throw my little runner ass around like a kettle ball from all your CF training. :)

I checked out the crossfitendurance.com site and went to the forum. There's a thread on there right now for someone looking for help on doing and Ironman.
http://www.crossfitendurance.com/...pic.php?f=2&t=77

The fact that we are talking about it, and I am posting about it is exactly what this noodle wants. Its exposure. For the record, I like the CF concept, but this is ridiculous. Yes, Lance has that video out, but that's just something he's added to his training. He's still logging in the miles.

I am going to go ride my bike on the trainer while doing kettle balls. :)

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56-11...the only way to fly