golly gee, i got nothing to say so.......ok, one thing.....more time training-less time on slowtwitch?

Ehh, take it for what it is...they're fast, good for them. Now it's debatable I'm sure, if some of them should be racing in the Elite division if there was one. Until there is a category system like in bike racing there is no way to really enforce that. Sounds like your a little ticked or pissed, but use it, get out there and get faster and kick their butts!

Some companies want to promote sport and active lifestyles, mine is actually a sponsor for most Ironman races and a whole bunch of others as well. I think it's great and I wish they would promote more within the company itself to develop more amateurs. I'd love to see us sweep a podium!

---

____________________
Titanium faces rock!

It's a free capitalist world, so its all fair game. This scenario exists in every region, but I think in your region there is no team EMJ MOP crew and BOP crew, just fast guys. I like it better when the teams have a cross section of athletes of all abilities. That's just a personal thing. Just seems more inclusive. Again, its a free world for anyone to get their message out. I kinda like how team Endurance nation does it. Athletes of all abilities, and sometimes they get a bunch of podiums too, but that's just a subset of the team.

I see some of this sort of thing and it does not bother me.

I think in most cases if the team did not exist the same people would be on the podium, they would just be wearing different kit. I'm sure certain teams will target particular races and maybe be represented more than is ordinary, but so what? The sponsor should be happy with all the exposure, and I think it is good for the sport if it can attract more sponsors.

Our team tends to get lots of AG placings - we take pride in going fast, but it also is not a requirement as we have many facets beyond racing. I'd say part of that is just having the interest in tri to actually apply for a team naturally leads to being faster than average.

I see fast people on teams representing running/ bike stores regionally, which makes sense as well.

Is the particular product you're referring to something triathlon/ endurance sport specific? Either way it seems fine to me.

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

True, but while it's a free world, I think there's something disingenous about paying and sponsoring high level athletes who are at the minimum, borderline elite, to crush the AG sections just to get your message out. I disagree that most of these same athletes would be all there sweeping the podiums otherwise - I actually looked for some of them and they def wouldn't all be there at the same time without the sponsor.

I feel that paying for race performance is more in the line of pro/elites and if you're recruiting folks fast enough to race in this division, that's where they should be, not cherrypicking the AGers - if it's a regional team like "local tri club", ok, fair game, but if you're selling a product, I feel that they shouldn't imbalance the AG division by slotting all their fast racers (who otherwise wouldn't even be there if they weren't sponsored to go there) into it. To me, that doesn't symbolize fair play in the AG category.

I see your point about the commercial flag flying and as I said it is a capitalistic world and it is allowed even though it might feel over the top. I agree if a local team that has a cross section of all speeds takes a bunch of podiums then that seems like a natural outcome of people happening to live there. I can assure you if the team you speak of (I assume you are talking EMJ so I am going to just say it) came of Quebec or Ontario, they would not sweep. We have plenty of fast guys just as fast or faster and they are not all stacked in one regional commercial team.

In general, the more companies that support triathlon the better. The more people that do triathlon the better. Fwiw, I highly doubt they are being paid to race, but maybe the receive some travel stipends or reimbursed entries. I can assure you none of these people are qualified to be professional, I am not even qualified IMO and I have 9 pro podiums to my name.

Take a step back, do you want these people to have travel to only big races, where they are going to be rocked (disenchanted) and have to pay for travel with no stipends versus staying close to home, having fun, and racing local?

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

This makes no sense. Either they have good coaches and good training plan so they all get fast on that team, or the members are selected based on their ability in the first place, or only fast athletes from that team complete in the races, or maybe the team has a lot of members and you just don't notice some of them that finish in 637th place. Either way they appear successful. That they are sponsored by someone is completely immaterial to their success. The sponsor will probably change, or go away, and their kit will change with it.

Edit: they are not a 'commercial team'. They just convinced a business to sponsor them, that's all.

I don't understand the gripe; you could join too. Their membership doesnt guarantee them a podium spot. I work out with such a team but frankly, choose not to officially join because I don't want to be forced into their gear choices. But I still enter the same race and have the same chance to beat them and often do.


In fact, their required gear is slower than mine--arguably not fair to them!!

What I want is for an AGer to race and train like an AGer. Which means they pay their entry fee, and pay for their training for the most part. Sure, there are triathlon teams and clubs that have sponsors that help defray organizational expenses, and that's also cool. What I'm not so cool with is having strong amateurs many of which would not race this race unless they're getting perks, getting free race entries, possibly free transportation (esp for the athletes who would otherwise never even do the race but were def there), and definitely significant free additional perks in training, and then showing up EN MASSE only because their sponsor told them too and basically paid for them to be there, to crush local triathlon AG podiums where the competition isn't as stiff as regional/national ones. That just doesn't seem like fair play to me.

I would have no issues whatsoever with these guys in pro/elite categories. I'm all for pros/elites getting sponsors, and hopefully big ones, especially for pros like yourself whom I wish all the best, and would love to see at my races! But advertising and sponsorship has its place, and I don't think this type of sponsored amateur racing in such numbers is quite fair play in the AG range, at least in my opinion.

If there were only a few of these guys, no problem. But when they sweep like 4 different AG categories - I feel that it changes the entire nature of the race, and really makes it more of a showboard for the commercial team who has called in non-local big gun amateur athletes as opposed to a legit local racing event.

Dude...Triathlon is an Individual sport. Try bike racing when this happens...then you have no choice than to HTFU & get faster. Maybe then they will ask you to join & I am certain you would not turn them down.

If I understand you correctly, a team is sponsored by a product and this team is dominating in your area. But you don't think they'd be at the races without the sponsorship. How do you know this?

At most of the races I go to, the Every Man Jack team has lots of members, and yep, they kick most everyones butt. Luckily they do not allow old guys on their team. :)

Nothing wrong with them racing and supporting their sponsor.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Personally, I can understand joining a "team" for the camaraderie, but having to wear the commercially-sponsored kit is a big turn-off. Basically in exchange for a free jersey and a discount or two on a few products, you are expected to be "active on social media" and sell yourself out to be a walking advertisement. I have way too much self-respect for that, and I'm poor as shit.

Because very few of the guys have repeated the race in prior years, and again, having been doing local races for a decade+ now, I know what the normal typical distribution of AG podiums looks like, and it's definitely not the same - not even close. It would be literally impossible to claim that these guys were planning on doing the race, and they just happened to be wearing the same sponsor's jersey while crushing the more typical AG distribution of results.

Like it or not as well, it does affect your perspective on your self performance. After getting my rear handed to me by them in all 3 races last year, which means I was blown so far off the podium that it was comical to even think about ever reaching it, I assumed that I was hitting my 'age-related decrease' in performance (and I'm merely 40-45AG) and could expect to be blown further back in the future at all my races - this is even after taking into account that these guys were likely pretty disproportionately fast.

I then was surprised this year when I won my AG in 3 local 5ks, and then creeped onto the AG podium in a recent tri that I didn't even feel was close to an "A" performance for myself (no sponsored teams showed up and yes, they were super soft fields, but that's to be expected from some small local races.) Of course, it's all about who shows up, and this proves it, but I am feeling that there's definitely a bit more mental reward when you know you're busting your butt in your limited training time, and see that your local race results actually reflect part of that hard work, as opposed to looking like you might as well just have been soft pedaling your workouts since you're so far off anything competitive even in that small local race.

The better the racers that show up for a race, the better potential for higher USAT ranking scores. I would much rather be last in a race getting pulled by a bunch of
studly athletes, that be overall first any day. Getting on the podium is no big deal since no way are most of the local racers there studs.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Of course, but to put it in perspective -

Let's say you keep up the training that's been winning your AG (I know you have) in run races for the past 5+ years. Like it or not, that little 'win' does give you mental benefit.

If you doubt that, consider this -

You continue to do that same training, but now, every time you enter the same local races that you know you should be winning your AG, or at least podiuming, you're knocked down to like 10th place in your AG. In every single race you do. And this isn't because you stepped up your game and entered bigger regional races - these are local races that you know from experience that you typically are good enough to win/podium.

Then add to that the fact that because of job/family/scheduling, you can only do 3 of these races a year. And the same exact thing happens to you at every single race. In fact, you don't have a single race out 5 in the year where you have your 'typical' result, thanks to the same competitive team showing up and distorting the typical normal results.

You'll probably at this point say you don't care that you're now basically a "MOP" racer in terms of local AG placings, but I'll bet 100% in reality you would to some degree. No, you wouldn't go rushing to the RDs about it, but it would definitely make you wonder like I do about whether this type of AG-stacking is exactly kosher in local races.

Don't let it bother you, failing that and given it is only a local race, round up a few mates or get some ring ins from here get a tri top made and crush them right back.

These made up teams tend not to be that good anyway so you should be able to beat them. Make sure you have a race top that shows you are not promoting a sponsor, make it clear you are taking the piss.

First off, a"local tri club" is still a product. You may disagree with that but it is still a product. Now it may not be a commercially available product but I don't think that matters. And I don't understand this "cherrypicking" either. Are you saying you want to race the softest field possible? Don't you want to race great athletes? Also, it is not like these athletes are ringers, are they flying in from the other side of the country to do these races on a regular basis? Have you talked to the RDs about it and got their perspective?

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

If I wanted to get crushed by pro/elites by racing the 'fastest people possible', I'd enter the elite divison (I can't anyway, I"m too slow!) and get crushed.

People give a lot of lip service to 'racing the fastest people possible', but for the majority of us AGers, that's just not a recipe for enjoyment. Elites are so fast that I don't even see them on the race course, and the BOPers are so slow that similarly I don't see them.

And if I wanted to just race against "team sponsored", I'd rather sign up in a specific race to compete specifically against team sponsored. If I enter my local tri, I'd much prefer that it would be representative of a typical local tri. Now, if all local tris were dominated by 'team sponsored', then ok, that's the new reality and tough (competitive cycling is like this as people have suggested above). But when the vast majority of tris are NOT dominated by 'team sponsored', but all the ones in my local area are, it gives grounds to at least consider whether something is off.

One of the main joys of smaller local tris for us middling AGers, is yes, the fields are softer, so we have a chance to pass and be passed, and get that thrill of excitement as you hammer toward the chute, and even wonder if you're lucky enough that day to creep onto the podium, or just better your AG placement from prior years especially against 'rivals' from prior years who might be in the same race. It's a somewhat different consideration than a strong pro triathlete who would be bored racing soft local fields, and who really needs to challenge themselves against the best of the best.

So the answer as an AGer to your question "don't you want to race great athletes?", my honest answer is really NO, I don't. I have no business racing them! Craig Alexander raced Vineman 70.3 two years ago when I did it and even my non-triathletes friends would have a good laugh if I even said "I raced Craig Alexander at Vineman!" because that's so far from reality that it's ludicrous. I enter races to compete against similar-abilities folks, and see how my fitness stacks up against a field of competitors on local,regional, or national levels. I definitely am NOT remotely, or ever considering racing "great" or even "good" athletes - that's already out of my league, and in fact I hope there are not so many great ones that I get left all alone on the course! (Happens to me at times, as I'm sometimes too fast for the MOP crew but so far behind the podium guys that I'm stuck in 'no-mans-land' during a race, all by myself.)

With the push from WTC to creating "teams", and those teams getting advantages when signing up for WTC events (early registration, guranteed spots, etc.), I think you'll only see more and more "teams" at local events. I know here in NC, the local supported tri shop team has grown in members. Of course these aren't stud athletes, more of the whole population of triathletes, and in fact the "studs" race for the "elite" AG team that is also sponsored by same local tri shop.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Just a word of advice: you're going to want to stay away from USAC-sanctioned bike racing. You won't like it.

I do not know why you seem to be calling top AGers elites. Either you have a pro card or you do not.

I have a friend who always wins his AG, if not overall in our area. He thinks he is a real stud. He went back to Nationals and got crushed, and I mean crushed.
And if he had gone to Worlds, it would have been worse.

Sounds like you would have loved the process HITS had in place their first year. There was an award be EACH year AG.

When I get asked did I get on the podium, I say I am just racing against the clock, which is what I control. Who shows up for a race, and therefore,
who gets on the podium really means nothing.

I have been once OA first in a race and got a low score. Went back the next year, had a slower time, and got a higher scores since some better athletes showed up.

So, I have had decent results. Should I no longer be able to get on the AG podium since you probably consider me elite? :)
I guess I should not race in my TeamUSA gear?

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep