I found the difference myself..

d. Unauthorized Assistance. No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form, including food, drink, equipment, support, pacing, a replacement bicycle or bicycle parts, unless an express exception has been granted and approved, in writing, by USA Triathlon. The receipt of information regarding the progress, split times, or location of other competitors on the race course shall not be considered the acceptance of unauthorized assistance. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.

I had missed the PERSON reference when I was reading this rule earlier.

I feel that power meters and GPS watches are a much bigger "danger" to our sport, than a couple of women (Or LS) enlisting the help of flawed humans to help them pace.

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Austin Hardy -

I don't think either should. All I'm saying is that they were not called "cheaters" back then and they should not have been..

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

At first I thought this is a prank you are trying to pull off and fire the crowd up. The way this thread has gone athletes genuinely chiming in and actually discussing it got me a bit to pause and think. But no, here is what I recommend to you, why not some EPO and drafting too, cutting the course as well, I mean why not? Right, no, wrong.
Where do people like you get this idea. How do you all sleep at night. Is this money for you or is this racing for personal satisfaction of accomplishment. What accomplishment is it if you are violating the spirit and the rules of the sport.
On the final note, I am sure many have gotten away with it. But people like you are going to draw and inspire a lot more scrutiny via race photography, athlete tracker and in the future drone and GPS tracking. The sooner we adopt that technology the sooner we purge the sport of people like you.
Sleep well.

Perhaps watching every international track meet or marathon? Or every international bike race? Or Kona? Or listening to the pros and top AG'ers talk about "drafting" and pacing and "being in the move".

Lets not act so outraged.. A little bit of perspective might make you sound a little less "holy".

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Austin Hardy -

I got some time to type this morning so here we go:
track, yep in the spirit and within the rules
cycling as track, same
pros and top AGers in triathlon doing the same, yep both drafting and pacing, than talking about it, one can watch the drone footage and race photography from various IM races, yep braking rules blatantly all the time, my position relative to that is the same as I sum it up in the post above, good for them.

how about watching some ITU races?

loads of cheating, ooooop's sorry drafting & pacing going on there then

People like me get the idea from watching it happen at races. It's very common in my age group and if it is legal then I am up for giving it a try. Obviously, from the response on this forum, it is not legal so I will not do it. The rules were not clear to me and that is why I asked the question. I would not cheat and do not want to unintentionally do so.

End of thread.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

You can clarify rules by contacting WTC, Jimmy Riccitello or the Head Ref at any event (like Ed Cheatham).

I suggest direct contact with them, not by a third party...

I would just never use the word pacing. And I sure would not use a few folks getting on their holy mountain to tell you how to race. But I would also never get onto social media
and ask since you know what a few will say.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Since the use of various on-board metrics are absolutely normal for the vast majority of athletes now, I think it's reasonable to allow their use during racing. Speed and HR (whether GPS or wheel based) are almost universally used and don't confer any advantage. Power meters are less common although I expect most serious athletes have them. But once you get into picking which telemetry is acceptable and which isn't I think it's going to get complex. Personally I don't have an issue with them being permitted. I also think it would be feasible to have a blanket ban on such devices but that would have to include all bike mounted instruments as well as any watches of any sort. I'm somewhat dependent on these devices for my pacing so I'm glad to have them but I would adjust if the rules dictated it. It would likely make for less consistent and predictable race times and results which could be seen as either a positive or a negative depending on your point of view.

I would say that telemetry does not interfere with the philosophy of this being an individual event. You are simply gathering and using data. It does assist with pacing, but so do distance markers and course clocks. The point to me is whether you're relying on yourself and your equipment or if you have another person there to show you the way.

Perhaps a bit harsh? People like you..you mean people who ask questions. The OP did not and has not cheated but by merely asking the question has been essentially labelled Julie Miller the second. The fact she posted this at all means she had her doubts about the legality of pacing so she asked. Now that she knows she says she will not do it and that should be enough.

I agree, I came a bit harsh.

I would ask, even if your husband was "pacing" you, how would you know that would give you a KQ??

I think everybody is a little caught up in the emotion of the rules to realize the simple fact that nobody knows what time the first place person in their AG will get on any particular day. You're husband isn't going to suddenly be able to transport you to the front of your AG during any particular leg of the race. If you are physically capable of earning a KQ then you will do it on your own. You're husband could "pace" you for a personal best ironman (other than the fact it's against the rules), but that doesn't mean you would earn a KQ that day. Unless you two are earning first and second place in the race, you won't know until the ceremony.

to some other's points, if you know what pace you need to go, then look at your watch/power meter and go that pace? What is the difference other than the obvious rule-breaking of one versus another?

Funny. Yeah, how do they get away with that?


I subscribe to ITU live channel. Still have not figured that rampant drafting there. Usually when I feel like drafting and having a domestique, I sign up for draft legal races.

Power meters and GPS allow you to pace your own race, not someone else. Unauthorized assistance rules state that you can't hinder your own race to help someone else. That's the difference

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Power Meters and GPS Absolutely allow you to pace someone else's pace. That is the very nature of why they are here. As soon as you say "I am going to try to squeeze an extra 10 seconds out of the next mile" or "I am going to avg 10 watts more" that is no different than having somebody of that capacity right in front of you. Any time you look at your watch to determine your performance, that is no different than having somebody on a motorcycle beside you telling you what you are doing and how you should improve.

This is why WTC needs to remove all pacing/drafting rules. They are unnecessary, confusing, and create a culture of rule "edging". Most people don't even bother following the rules in the first place.

Just make races draft/pace legal and all of this would be moot.

That is not what the issue is. Unauthorized assistance is when you hinder your own race for the benefit of another. GPS and power meters do not hinder your own race

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Your definition of Unauthorized assistance is what The rule tells you it is. It is circular logic.

They do it in every single other endurance sport. 70% of the age group does it during the marathon in ironman anyways. How many people would drop out at mile 17 if that other person didn't say, "Here, I'll run with you and we'll both get to the end.". That person prevented a DNF and therefore should be penalized.

The only way to truly enforce that rule is to create a pace zone that says "runners cannot be within 3m of each other and can not speak to each other.".
But what I am saying is "So what if somebody hinders their own race?". Let them.

Thank you. You looked at the rules in advance in order to try to follow them, and when they were unclear to you, you sought clarity to make sure you were not violating them. I wish your competitors that you have seen employing this tactic were as intent on following the rules as you apparently are. Best of luck to you in snagging your KQ.

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The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan

[replying to last post]

In the quotes on here for the rule I had not seen this preamble...

"“Pacing,” defined as making forward progress while being accompanied by someone who is not currently competing in the race, is never allowed."
(http://www.usatriathlon.org/...-assistance-34d.aspx)

Pacing here is explicitly defined as being accompanied by someone not competing. So, ignoring the ethics side of things for a moment, I don't see the actual rules violation being discussed here.

This.^^ The OP posted that she has seen others in her age group do this and then wondered about the legality of it. I suspected it was happening in my age group and this thread confirmed it. For significant others who are pacing their SO in an Ironman to a Kona slot or even more to a Kona podium place, if you think the rest of us in the age group who are also aiming for a Kona slot (and doing so without cheating) don't know that is happening and that you are getting by with cheating without others knowing, you are wrong. In some cases, those who are doing it are coaches themselves which is pathetic. That you as a coach don't have enough confidence in yourself to coach your SO to a Kona slot, and you don't have enough confidence in your SO to get there on her own power is pathetic. That, in these examples, the female getting the free tow/support around the course submits to that, is pathetic. And then you make all sorts of excuses for yourself to convince yourself that cheating in this way is not wrong.

To the OP, I echo what Dev wrote in the first page of responses. You don't need anyone, no one, including your husband to help you get your Kona slot on race day. You don't need to cheat. You are almost there. Get out there and fucking kill it and stand on the podium with your head held high that you got that slot because you are a fucking bad ass on your own.

It turns on the meaning of the word "competing". Having paid for a bib number does not necessarily mean you are competing. That is why Dan has repeatedly referred back to the concept of whether someone has "abandoned (or never had in the first place) their own race ambitions". If you are trying to do your best and they are trying to do their best, it is fine if you work together (within the other rules) to both do your best. If one party is only there to help or work for the other, they are not competing, whether they have a bib pinned on or not.

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__________________________________________________
The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan

Kitty,

I'm going to answer the question asked.

No you cant do this; a) it is against the rules and b) it is ethically wrong.

Think about if you did qualify that way.... how would you feel?

I'm not near an IM podium; 5 years ago when I started I was bottom quarter then I punched through the percentiles and over the years moved through top half towards the my goals. I can have good bike splits and good run splits but I am yet to combine them into the perfect race as I need to improve my fitness and improve my execution. At some point it will come together, maybe next season, maybe in another 5 years, but when it does I will have earned my spot and will have no problem taking it.

Its funny, Rinny got chastised a few years ago for "going through the motions" during IMFL 2013. She wasn't trying her best at all. She was enjoying the race, slowing down to high 5 the crowd and moseying along. Her goal was not to race as fast as she could, it was to earn enough points.

So to play devil's advocate (don't use this post as a snapshot of my moral compass): Couldn't her husband race just fast enough to get a certain amount of AG points for the AWA system (lets assume AWA really really means a lot to him)? In the mean time, his target race pace is enough for her to place well in her gender AG.